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How to pick a powder


SlvrDragon50

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I'm getting into reloading now, and I know that pretty much everything ends up becoming personal preference. However, I don't want to spend loads of money building up several different variations. 

 

What I am planning on:

 

I shoot a CZ Shadow 2 in Production.

 

9mm

Bullet weight - 124gr, 135gr, 147gr, 150gr, 160gr (buying sample packs) - Bayou Bullets, ACME, Blue Bullets (coated)

Primers - CCI because Federal too hard to get

Powder - where I am stuck.

 

I will be getting a Hornady LnL AP from someone here. I've been reading that the type of powder you choose is first determined by the powder measure. It seems that stick powder isn't necessarily the best option but at the same time, I am reading that some people can use stick powder just fine with consistent grains. Also been reading that a fast burn powder is usually the choice for heavier bullets.

 

The powders I'm considering are:

 

Hodgdon HP38

Winchester WST

Shooter's World Clean Shot

 

They're all about the same price. I believe HP38 should be easiest for me to get, Winchester WST as well.

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Nothing wrong with HP-38. It is Win 231 in another name. 231 has been around along time. So you can use the same reload data. The 147gr and 160gr will be the softer shooting and easier to make minor without a lot of powder. Just start at the bottom and work up to a load that is comfortable for you to shoot, control, accurate, etc.

If you were going to use jacketed bullets, SOLO 1000 is a good 9mm powder also.

Good luck, keep your powder dry and shoot small, miss small.

Mike

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If you are new to reloading, it might be good to know that, IIRC, WST has been un-recommended for 9mm by its manufacturer. Pressure issues. Lots of people here use it but they have tons of experience. Prima V has gotten lots of good press here and the price is apparently good. You'll get lots of recommendations for powders on this forum.

 

 

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Getting a pound of a smooth flowing, easy to load, forgiving powder would be a good place to start.  HP38 (or WW231) fits that bill perfectly.  Lots of folks use it and it is usually a vary accurate powder that works with a wide range of bullet weights.  It is a tad on the dirty side, but not horrible.  Lots of matches have been won by people shooting ww231.

 

If you load to manufacturer's specs or to a good reloading manual ( the lyman manual is a good first reloading book) you can get some experience and then go from there.   For 9mm minor there are literally dozens of powders that would work well.  Everybody has their favorites, and there are pros and cons for each powder.   i don't think i'd recommend buying large quantities of anything just yet. 

 

Enjoy- Reloading is an art unto itself!

 

 

edit to add - if you don't already have one I'd strongly recommend getting or borrowing a decent chronograph as part of your reloading equipment.  Loading and not knowing your velocities can be frustrating, and not making minor at a match will lead to sadness at the chrono station.    

 

Edited by Bamboo
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HP38/W231 is a great powder to start with. It will fulfill all your needs for 9mm for the time being as you build experience. 124,135,147's are good to go for Shadow, 115 too snappy, and 160 not as accurate with the twist rate of the Shadow barrel. Do a search for my name, I posted several PDF's of 9mm load data tested in my guns, chrono data along with accuracy data using my ransom rest and some benched with sandbags. My preferred bullet weight in my Shadows for production is 135gr. Good compromise between softness and accuracy. Feel free to pm me if I can help you further.

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Awesome, thanks! I will get HP38 since I know I can get it locally in a 1 lb tub without having to pay Haz Mat. Good to know about WST being unrecommended. Unfortunately no Clean Shot locally, but I may try it when I put together an online order when I am more experienced.

 

I would love to try N320, but I don't think they had 1 lb tubs of that (and the mark up was a bit more than I would have liked).

 

Someone on CZ Firearms is sending me a sample pack of 147-160gr bullets so I'll be eagerly looking forward to those. I currently shoot 124gr manufacturer reloads which I'm pretty happy with, but I think they are still shooting with a bit higher PF than needed. Unfortunately I won't be reloading for at least 2 weeks, but I suppose it just gives me more time to do much needed research!

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15 hours ago, bowenbuilt said:

Clean Shot does everything well and is versatile, out of the group you mention it would be my first choice for several reasons. No down side.

If you do not mind, did you use the Shooters World load data or Explosia/Lovex load data for your initial starting point?  I will be buying a 1lb of Clean Shot this friday to add to my powder supply.

TIA

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Could someone explain what makes certain powders harder or easier to use for beginners? Is it just the wealth of existing load data? Also, is it safe to buy a 4 or 8 lb tub of powder? I know it's risky to buy a bunch of bullets that may not work well, but does that same risk apply to powders?

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Some powders, like Clays, work great in a specific application but if pushed too hard over pressure develops without a lot of warning signs and can split a cylinder/chamber or blow a case head.   Great powder, but not a broad spectrum powder that is forgiving.  Also, it doesn't meter especially well being a large flake so that can lead to some frustration when setting the charge weight.  Not picking on Clays....it is a great powder for certain things and I use the Clay Dot Version...but a beginner shouldn't just assume they can use it in everything and kinda guess at the charge weight.  

 

After trying a few powders and settling on something that works for what you want, sure buy in quantity.  Personally, i really like American Select for 9mm minor and see Powder Valley has it in stock.  If i needed more I would buy a couple 8 pounders in a heartbeat. It is a good powder for all the gamer loads/calibers I shoot.  It is good to get all the same lot number so once you develop a load you don't have to worry about what happens when your bottle runs out and you open up another of a different lot number (may not give you the same velocity for a given charge weight).  Some of the shotgun powders we use for pistol are known to have noticeable variance between lot numbers. 

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Okay. I guess what I am hesitant about trying a bunch of powders is getting a ton of 1 lb tubs then where do you really draw the line? After 3 powders? After 8?

 

Pardon the super rookie question, but will changing powders be as easy as just changing the powder measure? The bullet seating and whatnot all remains the same correct?

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21 hours ago, pinbot said:

If you do not mind, did you use the Shooters World load data or Explosia/Lovex load data for your initial starting point?  I will be buying a 1lb of Clean Shot this friday to add to my powder supply.

TIA

You can use that data or Accurate Arms AA2 data for your starting load. I ended up at 3.5 with a 135 grain bullet loaded to 1.120 for my CZ. I could not find any published data for a 135 grain bullet so I split the difference between the 124 and 147 starting load and proceeded with caution until I got to 130ish power factor.

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8 hours ago, SlvrDragon50 said:

 will changing powders be as easy as changing powder measure? The bullet seating remains the same?

 

Once you set the OAL and the crimp, they won't change just because

you change powder (OAL might change anytime you change the bullet).

 

I started with WW231 40 years ago, and Never changed it.   I have some

other powders for other calibers/applications, but not for 9mm Minor    :) 

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38 minutes ago, bowenbuilt said:

  I could not find published data for 135 grain so I split the difference between the 124 and 147 starting load and proceeded with caution

 

Ah, some common sense    :bow:

 

Just because you are unable to find a published load for a 138.3 grain bullet

doesn't mean you're screwed.

 

Just take the info you can find, and interpolate, and "start low and proceed with caution" and a chrono    :) 

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Let me qualify this response by admitting that I'm a Theoretical Physicist and my approach may be unorthodox... When looking at potential loads I look for the outliers, which powder/bullet weight combinations have the largest/smallest mass spreads. For any given bullet weight, for example, the load data may show powders with a .6grn spread from min. to max pressure as well as powders with a 1 - 1.2 grain spread. I would use the powder with the largest spread. I wouldn't use the powder with the tightest spread. Then, if I didn't know what bullet weight I wanted to use, I would look at the spread of the powders across the different bullet weights, the powder with the largest spread for 115grn bullets (9mm example) wouldn't necessarily have the largest spread for 147's, but that would give me a better idea of what powder may be workable for the largest variation of bullet weights. Another consideration is the desired velocity with regard to the range of velocities for a given powder/bullet combo. If I can help it, I don't want to use a bullet/powder combo that's at either extreme end of the range (no starting load, no max load). I'd rather that the powder/bullet combo fall into the middle of the charge range. All things being equal (which they never are) if it's 'close', I'll use something I have, I'd rather not use a dirty powder, and how well the powder meters is of importance as well. I don't like using powders that are difficult to get a consistent charge from my powder measure.

 

YMMV,

D

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7 hours ago, SlvrDragon50 said:

I was planning on staying away from Titegroup as people said it is a bit dirtier than other powders, and it is only marginally cheaper.

Ive found that titegroup isnt really much more dirty than a bunch of other powders I have used. Youre eventually going to have to clean your gun no matter what powder you use, using something other than titegroup isnt going to change that. I think people exaggerate things to some degrees. Titegroup is a good powder, I like WST because the gun doesnt get as hot as with titegroup and is not as dense so it fills the case more(easier to spot a dbl charge)

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2 hours ago, dsb said:

Let me qualify this response by admitting that I'm a Theoretical Physicist and my approach may be unorthodox... When looking at potential loads I look for the outliers, which powder/bullet weight combinations have the largest/smallest mass spreads. For any given bullet weight, for example, the load data may show powders with a .6grn spread from min. to max pressure as well as powders with a 1 - 1.2 grain spread. I would use the powder with the largest spread. I wouldn't use the powder with the tightest spread. Then, if I didn't know what bullet weight I wanted to use, I would look at the spread of the powders across the different bullet weights, the powder with the largest spread for 115grn bullets (9mm example) wouldn't necessarily have the largest spread for 147's, but that would give me a better idea of what powder may be workable for the largest variation of bullet weights. Another consideration is the desired velocity with regard to the range of velocities for a given powder/bullet combo. If I can help it, I don't want to use a bullet/powder combo that's at either extreme end of the range (no starting load, no max load). I'd rather that the powder/bullet combo fall into the middle of the charge range. All things being equal (which they never are) if it's 'close', I'll use something I have, I'd rather not use a dirty powder, and how well the powder meters is of importance as well. I don't like using powders that are difficult to get a consistent charge from my powder measure.

 

YMMV,

D

Ahh, excellent thoughts! As an engineer I like your approach. I think I may end up placing a large order from Powder Valley though I want to check out some of the local stores if I can avoid the Hazmat fee. Unfortunately the range I shoot USPSA at has a big upcharge with +6-8 bucks on 1lb jugs of powder and +4 dollars on CCI primers. Is that normal for local powder purchases?

 

Probably gonna get: 1) Clean Shot, 2) HP38, 3) Titegroup, and 4) maybe some N320 just to see what all the rage is about.

Edited by SlvrDragon50
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buy your couple 1#ers local and see what you like after trying them out. once you find what you like, thats the time to order several 8# jugs. ordering online you will get much better prices than local, but you have to figure in hazmat and shipping, therefore the more you get the cheaper it is.

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2 hours ago, lefty o said:

buy your couple 1#ers local and see what you like after trying them out. once you find what you like, thats the time to order several 8# jugs. ordering online you will get much better prices than local, but you have to figure in hazmat and shipping, therefore the more you get the cheaper it is.

Unfortunately it's not worth it to buy local.

 

The markup is insane on primers, and I'll make my savings on just buying primers. I just called another local shop, and they want $35/1k winchester primers!! And these prices exclude 10% sales tax. A 1lb jug of HP38 was also 25 dollars.

 

I'm starting to read that Titegroup isn't as beginner friendly since its pressure levels increase rapidly so I will likely just get Clean Shot, HP38, and N320!

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 If you're up for a drive, there are some shops over in Pekin that carry reloading components. I think its about a 90 minute drive for you. That's where I usually get all of my components from. Your call if the gas money works out! 

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1 hour ago, Edmooberry said:

 If you're up for a drive, there are some shops over in Pekin that carry reloading components. I think its about a 90 minute drive for you. That's where I usually get all of my components from. Your call if the gas money works out! 

 

Can you give me a few names? I shoot at CI Shooting Sports in Bloomington which is pretty close. My friend told me that he buys his primers at a store in Springfield for 30/1k. At the moment I'm contemplating buying a 4lb tub of N320 and 4lb of Clean Shot and 5k primers from Powder Valley to make up for the Hazmat. 

 

I hate that you guys keep giving me more and more options :P Hearing your testimony on True Blue is making me want it too. 

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