Price of a build

[blacklab]

I was cleaning my rifle tonight and started adding up the prices of all the parts and it got me thinking. I live in a area of the north east where land is a premium and very few clubs have ranges over 300yds, most have 200yds and some only have 100yd ranges so why do I need pricey components? 90% of my shooting is done under 50yds so why did I pay $350.00 for a barrel? Why do I have a $800.00 scope and $100.00 mount? Why did I buy a $170.00 handguard? I know there is a lot better stuff then I have on my 3 gun rifle but I also have a truck gun that I built with a $75.00 barrel, a $40.00 handguard from Ebay, a $200 scope and a $25.00 Chines mount that works pretty good, it holds a 3 1/2"-4" group @ 200yds with factory ammo. So my question is, if someone wants to get into shooting 3 gun under the same conditions as me, why wouldn't a $550-600 package rifle/scope be able to be competitive? I understand that you get  advantages with a more expensive trigger, lo mass bolt, better glass, etc. but wouldn't a budget gun work almost as good for bay shooting? If you were trying to get a friend to start shooting would you recommend a less expensive rifle?

[Kirkwoodious]

Yes, you should start 3gun with less expensive equipment and upgrade as needed.

 

To your point, a good shooter with an M&P Sport (or any generic budget AR) and budget 1-4 scope can out shoot a average shooter with the highest end race gun with $2k glass.

 

Do all those fancy parts matter - sure, but only on the margins and only if you have a specific need that the standard equipment cannot fulfill.

[blacklab]

The reason I'm asking is because I have a friend that is a bullheaded perfectionist. He doesn't seem to think that his equipment is good enough to shoot three gun and he can't put out 3K for a new rifle. I was hoping that if he saw in writing that you don't need top-of-the-line stuff he might be more willing to shoot. 

[AFguywhoshoots]

My AR started life as a cheap gun I threw together with a 550$ Budget, glass included. I started shooting 3 gun and slowly started changing parts once I figured out some more about shooting 3 gun to cater my rifle to the matches I shoot. I have been shooting that rifle for 3 years now and the only original equipment from the starting point is the safeties. Not all the mods have been necessary, like billet upper and lower, but I am pretty happy with my end result after 3 years of tinkering. You don't need a lot to get started, but the biggest thing is to get out and shoot. Handle others rifles and find out what you like before you buy.     

[Hi-Power Jack]

1 hour ago, blacklab said:

  I have a friend doesn't  think his equipment is good enough  and he can't put out 3K for a new rifle.

 

How about the $3K for ammo ....   ?

[OPENB]

A decent budget rifle with the best trigger you can afford and a PA or Strike Eagle in  Aero mount is a great start. $1000 tops.

[Rookie]

If you don't shoot over 300 yards, the targets are not difficult to find and 90% of the shots are under 50 yards... you should be able to get by without magnification.

[CharlieD]

I love great gear, but if the choice came down to shooting a $500 rifle or not shooting, I'm shooting that $500 rifle every chance I get.  

One of the nice things about the AR is the modularity.  Your buddy can upgrade parts one at a time and can always carry those parts over to a future build.  Start with a good trigger and a muzzle brake.

[NoKimberDave]

Because 3gun is like a fashion contest for men.

 

Whatever you do: make sure you are wearing Salomon Speedcross and Kuhl pants, or it could be a match DQ!

 

 

[Nathanb]

My first and favorite game gun was a bone stock stag arms optics ready model. I still grab that thing from time to time and I have about ten other ars in the safe

[blacklab]

4 hours ago, NoKimberDave said:

Whatever you do: make sure you are wearing Salomon Speedcross and Kuhl pants, or it could be a match DQ!

 

Uh oh...... I wear Levis, at tee shirt and Nike sneakers. If I dress better will I score better??

[NoKimberDave]

51 minutes ago, blacklab said:

Uh oh...... I wear Levis, at tee shirt and Nike sneakers. If I dress better will I score better??

 

No, but you'll look fabulith!

[KYTrunkMonkey]

I started out shooting 3gun with a bone stock M&P rifle and a red dot.  Over the last 2 years, piece by piece, I have upgraded almost every part on it, but still within a budget.  While I don't expect to win a major match with it anytime soon, I feel I shoot competitive enough to have fun with it.  I say for $1K, including optic, a rifle can be built that will more than meet the needs of most of our shooting abilities.

[Hi-Power Jack]

Is it possible to buy an AR with :

   - decent comp

   - light hand guard

   - real nice trigger (ARGold?)

   - adjustable stock (not telescoping, but truly adjustable)

 

for a decent amount of money?

 

Or, do you have to buy a rifle, and then switch all the parts?

[AFguywhoshoots]

It is completely possible. You just spend less on the blingy stuff. Instead of billet, you get forged upper and lower. The Miculek comp is effective and cheap, it is loud as can be though. biggest thing is just catching stuff on sale, or finding solid used stuff. My dad picks up white oak barrels from the DCM guys pretty cheap. Most of the time they have less than a thousand rounds through them. Just figure out your budget and build from there, piece by piece. 

[blacklab]

He has a M&P with a cheap 1-4 scope on it and just a bird cage, but he still thinks he cant be competitive with it. There's a shoot coming up in 2 weeks at a club that usually has easy stages. Maybe by then I'll talk him into it. 

[Kirkwoodious]

To a comment above - first thing he should spend money on is a trigger.  Tons of good ones in the $100 - 250 range.  CMC on the lower end, Geissele, Timney, Hyperfire, AR Gold and others on the upper end.  Next is muzzle break, then adjustable gas block, then free float rail. ($400 max combined).  

 

Everything after that is personal preference and fit on optics/stocks/etc. and aesthetics.

[Hi-Power Jack]

13 hours ago, blacklab said:

  M&P with a cheap 1-4 scope on it and just a bird cage

 

That's what I did few years ago - milspec trigger (took two hands to pull the trigger),

 

cheap 1-4x scope and no compensator ....    The M&P 16" rifle.

 

It was an education, but I shot it competitively a few times to decide if I wanted to stay in the game.

 

That setup is NOT competitive by any stretch of imagination   

 

Tell him to try it - then ask someone if he can shoot ANY rifle they have

with a decent trigger, decent scope and decent compensator -

 

He will then drive, very fast, to the local gun shop and buy those three items.

 

Cannot shoot competitively without all three of them -

[Vespid_Wasp]

I would rather spend money on match fees and shoot matches than have an expensive rifle.

 

 

I have gradually gravitated towards some racegun parts but I would not hesitate to compete with an off the shelf $500 rifle and a sighting system that held zero, especially at matches where rifle shots are 200 yards or less.  Too many people are put off by the notion that they need fancy gear to compete, and they let that prevent them from the fun and the skill building that comes from competition.  Give a top 10 competitor a stock AR, stock G17 and Benelli Nova with a decent loading port and they will probably give you a top 20 finish.

 

 

A decent trigger is the first thing to upgrade in an AR and if it run reliably and the optic holds zero and you can see your targets, there is zero reason you cannot be competitive.  More time is lost in a single fumbled shotgun load than all the rifle splits in an entire 3-gun match.  Tell your buddy to get out there with you and have fun.  Or he is just making excuses.  Some people are afraid of competition and will seek all kinds of avenues to create excuses because they wrongly think they will be laughed at, or that there is something wrong with finding out that you aren't the best.

 

 

 

It is a bit sobering when I tally up what I have in my 3-gun rigs, I tell my wife that it is cheaper than racing motorcycles or pulling tractors.  :-P

[KYTrunkMonkey]

1 hour ago, Vespid_Wasp said:

I would rather spend money on match fees and shoot matches than have an expensive rifle.

 

 

I have gradually gravitated towards some racegun parts but I would not hesitate to compete with an off the shelf $500 rifle and a sighting system that held zero, especially at matches where rifle shots are 200 yards or less.  Too many people are put off by the notion that they need fancy gear to compete, and they let that prevent them from the fun and the skill building that comes from competition.  Give a top 10 competitor a stock AR, stock G17 and Benelli Nova with a decent loading port and they will probably give you a top 20 finish.

 

 

A decent trigger is the first thing to upgrade in an AR and if it run reliably and the optic holds zero and you can see your targets, there is zero reason you cannot be competitive.  More time is lost in a single fumbled shotgun load than all the rifle splits in an entire 3-gun match.  Tell your buddy to get out there with you and have fun.  Or he is just making excuses.  Some people are afraid of competition and will seek all kinds of avenues to create excuses because they wrongly think they will be laughed at, or that there is something wrong with finding out that you aren't the best.

 

 

 

It is a bit sobering when I tally up what I have in my 3-gun rigs, I tell my wife that it is cheaper than racing motorcycles or pulling tractors.  :-P

 

Yes, to all of this...no amount of equipment can over compensate for training, practice, and skill.  I have heard a 1000 different excuses from buddies as to why they "can't" shoot with us.  And, I will never tally up what I have in my 3-gun rigs, I am afraid.  But it is cheaper than drag racing .

[blacklab]

13 hours ago, Hi-Power Jack said:

Tell him to try it - then ask someone if he can shoot ANY rifle they have

with a decent trigger, decent scope and decent compensator -

 

I would offer to let him use my rifle but he would probably out shoot me.

[AFguywhoshoots]

I was always told for an AR you want to put the money into trigger, barrel and glass. That is where you will get the most return on investment in my opinion. 

[MotorMouth]

On 5/25/2017 at 9:22 AM, AFguywhoshoots said:

I was always told for an AR you want to put the money into trigger, barrel and glass. That is where you will get the most return on investment in my opinion. 

Something like a Daniel Defense is all you need.  Just add a trigger and the best optic you can afford.  Or a red dot and shoot practical.

[polymerfeelsweirdman]

23 hours ago, MotorMouth said:

Something like a Daniel Defense is all you need.  Just add a trigger and the best optic you can afford.  Or a red dot and shoot practical.

and a JM brake for $40

[metau]

Have him add a JM brake to his M&P, drop in a trigger, and start registering for matches. He will shave off time quicker by learning how to plan a stage than he will by waiting to buy fancier gear and sitting on his @ss in the meantime.