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Oversized bullets?


olstyn

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Wanting to try out coated bullets in order to save some $ vs the Montana Golds I've been shooting, I ordered a 500-round package of 124 grain round nose from Acme - I thought that'd be enough to get a good feel for whether I liked them, but not so many that it'd be wasteful if they were workable but not great. 

 

Unfortunately, no matter what OAL I seated them to, I couldn't get them to pass the plunk test.  I also had what I felt was an inordinately difficult time getting the bell and crimp set such that the coating wasn't getting cut/shaved.  After much frustation, I decided to measure the bullets, and it turns out that instead of the .356" that they're advertised at, the bullets were .357" in diameter.  (I'm fairly certain that my calipers are accurate, sincy my supply of Montana Gold bullets measure the .355" they're supposed to.)  My guess is that that's why I couldn't get them to plunk at any OAL from 1.16 all the way down to significantly below 1.08.  (I stopped measuring after a 1.08, but I shortened the OAL several times after that measurement, and they were starting to look like .380 round nose.)

 

I used the contact form on Acme's website and told them my story.  Hopefully they'll have something useful to say, but I'm curious whether anyone on the forum has had a similar experience at some point, and if so, what the end result was.

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I've had similar experiences in 40sw.  Now I only buy bullets coated on .400" dia. lead.  Accuracy is terrific, and no problems.  The coating always adds a little thickness.  You might try bullets from Precision bullets.  I've found them to be accurately sized, and the most accurate of the bunch.

 

If you are loading on a Dillon machine, buy the powder funnel/2-step expander from Mr. Bulletfeeder.  It makes life a lot easier.

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I've had problems with the oversized bullets from Bayou and ACME before finally settling on Blue Bullets, which are not oversized.  Now in all fairness, accuracy was great with both of them, and the problems seemed to be firearm specific.  Long and short, XDm's have tight chambers and don't seem to play nice with the oversized bullets in my experience.  The problems occurred with my XDm's in 9 and 40, as well as my dad's XDm's in 9 and 40 and RO 9mm, so they seem to be fairly repeatable (at least with Springfield Armory firearms).  The ACME's actually seemed a bit more oversized than advertised, per my calipers.  Think I was generally getting .3565 instead of .356, while they Bayous were .356 consistently.

 

Not sure what firearm you're using, but perhaps you are experiencing the same issues I was.  I could get the oversized ones to run with a heavier crimp, which I am not a fan of.
 

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Good idea to measure things. I know the Bayou 147 are big. A crimp alone won't reduce them and if you overcrimp you will create a whole new set of problems.  A Lee FCD might solve the problem but you would be swaging an oversized  bullet if you go that route. (The cartridge passes through a carbide ring when it passes into the die.) Doesn't seem to cause problems to many who do it, including me.

 

Did you mark the rounds with a marker before the plunk test? That would probably tell you where the hangup is.

Edited by lgh
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Yes, I have the same problem with my latest batch of ACME. I can load 124 gr from Extreme and all are fine, plunk test and gauge, but the ACME's failing both tests. I measured the sizes of both and found the Extreme to be .356, and the ACME to be 0.3565-0.357, just a few thousands, but the effect is quite drastic. I checked everything, and followed all recommendations I could find here, but the only difference was the bullet size.

Maybe I should talk to ACME, too.

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On 5/16/2017 at 4:25 PM, RudyVey said:

Maybe I should talk to ACME, too.

 

Maybe you should.  They sent me an email today apologizing and giving me the tracking info for a new shipment.  They said that there would be a prepaid label & envelope to return the unused portion of the first order.  Hopefully the new bullets are sized correctly.  Can't fault their approach to customer service so far.

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I push every coated bullet I buy thru a Lee sizing die (other companies make them too) of the size I want.

I buy bullets for 38/357 (.358) and push them thru a die for 38 or 9mm, I have sizing dies, .356/.357/.358, depending what I'm loading, that way I only need to buy/stock one bullet of each weight for 9mm/38/357.

Most here load/shoot way more than me so this added step maybe not be practical, it is a quick operation, and works for me.

That and I chamfer the case mouth to minimize shaving of coating and use a larger diameter 38S&W expander in my 9mm powder drop/expander die for coated bullets.

https://fsreloading.com/lee-precision-pm-expan-plug-38-sw-se1699.html

Sorry for mentioning the "L" company...my 1st post so go easy on me:huh:

:D

 

Edited by Kenstone
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Well, the replacement shipment made it to me, and thankfully, they measured .356" as they ought, but unfortunately, even with correctly sized bullets, I still have to seat them super short to pass the plunk test in my gun's barrel.  (The first one I got to pass was 1.037", so I'm probably looking at 1.035" or even a little shorter for actual use.)  I'll be keeping them and attempting to use them, but I think I'll have to try out another vendor - it's fairly obvious that Acme's 124 gr round nose profile is not a good fit for my gun.

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Just another thought... with coated projectiles, I needed to bell the case a bit more than plated or FMJ. If I tried the plunk test without crimping  (more like removing the bell), they would fail the plunk test no matter what OAL I tried. So, if you are not doing so already, make sure you have fully removed the bell prior to plunk testing and you might wind up making these projectiles work.

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The case mouth measures .379" after the crimp/bell removal step, so I *think* I've got that where it needs to be.  At least, with .356" bullets and most 9mm case walls measuring .011-.012", I doubt I could safely squeeze that down any farther without cutting the coating.

 

Regarding throating the barrel, I'd prefer to avoid that if possible, simply because I don't want to mess with it, but I guess it's an option.

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I really doubt 0.001" would be the problem. I shoot 0.358" lead in ALL my 9x19 guns without any issue.

You might need to chamfer the cases lightly or reduce the "crimp."

The solution to chambering problems is to determine the cause:

Take the barrel out of the gun. Drop rounds in until you find one that won't chamber. Take that round and "paint" the bullet and case black with Magic Marker or other marker. Drop round in barrel (or gage) and rotate it back-and-forth a few times.

Remove and inspect the round:

1) Scratches in the ink on bullet--COL is too long

2) Scratches in the ink on edge of the case mouth--insufficient crimp

3) Scratches in the ink just below the case mouth--too much crimp, you're crushing the case

4) Scratches in the ink on case at base of bullet--bullet seated crooked due to insufficient case expansion (not case mouth flare) or improper seating stem fit

5) Scratches in the ink on case just above extractor groove--case bulge not removed during sizing. May need a bulge buster.

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