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Upgrading to a progressive press


Sig0431

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I shoot USPSA Limited and reload a lot of 9mm on a weekly basis. I started my reloading venture with a Lee Turret Press but I am now at the point where it is time to upgrade. I am trying to decide if I should go with a lee progressive press or a Dillon. Now I understand that Dillon is viewed by most as the top of the line press but what I am looking for is input as to what benefits I would get out of the Dillon vs the lee. Please keep in mind that I am in the military so I do not have deep pockets which is why I am leaning towards Lee. Also can someone let me know what model I should be looking for incase someone one this site sells one? I plan to use this only for pistol and keep my current Lee turret press for rifle.

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13 minutes ago, Sig0431 said:

  decide if I should go with a lee progressive press or a Dillon.

 

The Dillon Square Deal (I've been using one for 20 years+) and

loaded 10,000 rounds per year of 9mm minor and major,

costs $405.    Great unlimited warranty - does great job for

9mm.  That's total price with dies - I can load 200 rounds/hour.

 

You might want to compare the price of the Lee progressive -

and their warranty.    :) 

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I used a Hornady for several years but recently switched to a Dillon 650.
I like the Dillon much better.
No experience with the Lee.
The Dillon is the one most people compare other presses to. My opinion is to always buy the one that everyone claims to be as good as. Just my opinion and im sure there are a lot of other opinions.

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Do a search of the Lee Press. I've never heard anyone say anything good about it. I was happy with my Hornady lock n load. 

 

Pretty much everything in reloading is a trade off between how fast you want to reload and how much you want to spend. 

 

How much is time spent at the press worth to you? Depending on my far you plan on going the dillion would be easier to add a bullet feeder and case feeder to. And it would sell faster/easier if you wanted to get rid of it

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I have a Dillon 550 and currently load 9MM and 40S+W with it for use in USPSA.  I previously had a Lee progressive which in "principle" should be a good press.  My PERSONAL experience with the Lee was that:  1) the primer system is unreliable.  To get primers to feed takes a significant amount of "fiddling".  This I feel is the most significant issue with their presses.  There are lots of YouTube videos on all sorts of ways to "tweak" the feeding system but, I found myself spending a lot of time not cranking-out rounds.  Out of a hundred primers I would average 4 jams that required me to remove the feeder tray and fish-out misfeed primers., 2) the case feeder also takes a lot of "fiddling" to keep it running.  It would misfeed and require adjudication on average 5-6 times per 100 cases being feed.

 

When I considered the time the press was "Not-Mission-Capable" it was frustrating.  If you only have limited time to produce ammo then the above situation becomes even more painful.

Edited by phoenixsomd
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Thank you all for the input and advice. I cant be happier belonging to a site full of professionals like you all.

 

2 minutes ago, Kraj said:

Do a search of the Lee Press. I've never heard anyone say anything good about it. I was happy with my Hornady lock n load. 

 

Pretty much everything in reloading is a trade off between how fast you want to reload and how much you want to spend. 

 

How much is time spent at the press worth to you? Depending on my far you plan on going the dillion would be easier to add a bullet feeder and case feeder to. And it would sell faster/easier if you wanted to get rid of it

 

You make a great point here. I have use the "build your press" on Dillons site and when I see the $1000+ price I have been apprehensive but now that I think about it, I can look at saving for jus the press then adding options to it as I go. This weekend I was trying to get ahead with reloading instead of doing it the day before a match. I loaded about 400 rounds and then it started to hit me that I cold have finished this in 1/4 of the time with the right progressive press. I don't regret owning a turret press as I still think it is fundamental to learning reloading but I am now at the point where 4 pulls of the handle for one round is starting to get annoying.

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I have two 450B Dillon Presses that I have had since 1986. I prefer the Dillon for loading 9mm and 45 ACP. I can crank out about 400 rounds an hour. The newer 550 press you should be about to do that and maybe a little more 500-550/hour. Do not know anything about Lee or any other press except a RCBS rock chucker single stage I use for rifle. Dillon has a no B/S warranty policy. If it breaks, they replace it at N/C No questions Asked even if you are the second or third owner. Great company to deal with. IMVHO you can't go wrong with a Dillon 550 or 650. Cost wise look at the 550B.

Thanks,

Mike

 

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Just now, Sig0431 said:

Thank you all for the input and advice. I cant be happier belonging to a site full of professionals like you all.

 

 

You make a great point here. I have use the "build your press" on Dillons site and when I see the $1000+ price I have been apprehensive but now that I think about it, I can look at saving for jus the press then adding options to it as I go. This weekend I was trying to get ahead with reloading instead of doing it the day before a match. I loaded about 400 rounds and then it started to hit me that I cold have finished this in 1/4 of the time with the right progressive press. I don't regret owning a turret press as I still think it is fundamental to learning reloading but I am now at the point where 4 pulls of the handle for one round is starting to get annoying.

Or you could have used the same amount of time to load for the month instead of the week. 

 

I had the Hornady with a bullet feeder and case feeder,and every night before a match a was up late reloading ammo for the next day. I sold the feeders and bought a mark 7 1050, Reloaded all the brass I had over the winter and havnt had to worry about it for the last 4 months. 

 

What are your needs and how much is your time worth? That's really up to you. 

 

Even if you spent 1k on a set up.. You'll easily make that money back over the life of the press if you take care of it. Then when your done with it sell it for 80% of what you payed for it. 

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3 minutes ago, phoenixsomd said:

I have a Dillon 550 and currently load 9MM and 40S+W with it for use in USPSA.  I previously had a Lee progressive which in "principle" should be a good press.  My PERSONAL experience with the Lee was that:  1) the primer system is unreliable.  To get primers to feed takes a significant amount of "fiddling".  This I feel is the most significant issue with their presses.  There are lots of YouTube videos on all sorts of ways to "tweak" the feeding system but, I found myself spending a lot of time not cranking-out rounds.  Out of a hundred primers I would average 4 jams that required me to remove the feeder tray and fish-out misfeed primers., 2) the case feeder also takes a lot of "fiddling" to keep it running.  It would misfeed and require adjudication on average 5-6 times per 100 cases being feed.

 

When I considered the time the press was "Not-Mission-Capable" it was frustrating.  If you only have limited time to produce ammo then the above situation becomes even more painful.

 

Interesting to hear about the primer issues. On my turret press I hated the primer system until I got it adjusted perfectly, but even still I have about 3 primers out of 100 that fly out and I spend 15 min on the floor looking for the primer. If I bump into my primer arm I will be unhappy to say the least as I will have to start all over again readjusting and lining things up to get it complete the simple task. I also swear that there is a issue with my de-priming die as the brass never lines up and I have to push the top of the brass to get it to seat in the die.

 

I also like what I saw with the Dillon spent brass cup. Below is my set up and there is no room for the damn tube for spent primers so I have to use a small box but at time the spent primer hits the pivot bars for the lever and shoots the primer behind the press or to the side.

 

5919f7b318615_ReloadingPress.thumb.jpg.dc6d8c40294c6bce7d46034ffd7b64fa.jpg

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First of all, thank you for your service sir.

I have a Lee LoadMaster which us their best progressive press and Dillon square deal b. Dillon requires less tinkering, if any, and has a LIFETIME warranty it loads pistol calibers only. Load master requires constant tinkering but doesn't require hand loading each case and bullet every time which the square deal b does.

Lee LM uses standard dies and square deal b uses proprietary dies that only they make but they're great carbide dies.

If I had to choose one only for pistol I'd go with a used dillon square deal b. You can find them on ebay

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I would definitely look around on eBay.  There are normally a large number of used Dillon presses and accessories up for auction.  Since the warranty is lifetime on their presses the price-point for used appears to hover around 80-85% of the new price. 

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My first progressive was a SDB. Nice press.  Never had a single problem with it. Sold it to my shooting buddy but wish I had kept it.  I now have a 550 and 650. With a case feeder, the 650 is faster but if your need is less than about 400 rds/week the SDB is great.  It also has a small footprint so it fits on a smaller bench. Only uses Dillon dies (which work fine). You would have no problem selling it.

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I have a Lee turret press, my son still uses and I had the Lee Loadmaster with all the add ons. Bullet & case feeder. It was a lesson in frustration. Always tinkering with it. When it worked it worked well. Problem was when it didn't work (almost every loading session) if you did not keep track of all the rounds on it to make sure there was powder and no double loads, you tended to loose track fixing & tinkering with things. Only time I ever have had a squib round.

 

Went to the Dillon 650 and have never looked back. Took a little time to figure out the small intricacies of it, but once I did it is great. Does not like S&B primers. Can sit down and load 300 rounds for a match in less than an hour. I have the case feeder and the Mr Bullet mini. Takes almost more time to load primers in the tube and bullets than to actually run them. Buy once cry once.

 

The other thing nice about the Dillon is I have 2 toolheads. One for my minor PCC loads & one for my major open loads. Takes about 2 minutes to switch.

 

gerritm

Edited by gerritm
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Regarding the Lee Loadmaster - get an explosion shield.  It costs $5 and SHOULD come with the press, but Lee won't include it. The problem with the loadmaster is the priming system doesn't separate the primer getting seated from the resivior of them.  This is from 2008 on my Loadmaster.

 

 

It was .45acp and CCI primers - I have no idea to this day if a primer didn't come out and I couldn't feel it, if a small-primer piece got in with the larger primer piece, whatever - it still went off.  Moved this tidbit up, since it kept putting it in the quote and I got fed up of trying to have it in an order that made sense.

 

Later I moved to the Hornady.  I liked it, but had consistency issues due to the bushing system.  I also had a few lugs break off the bushings due to heat treatment problems, although luckily I didn't have to fiddle with the timing or primer system too often - those are two things that a lot of people have to mess with.  When I wanted a case feeder, Hornady wouldn't sell me the lower portion of their casefeed system separately, period.  That was the kicker, and I looked at the dillon 650.

 

The 650 was designed for a case Feeder originally, and didn't have one adapted to it like the Hornady.  The Dillon has a carousel that does an okayish job of separating primers from the feed tube, but not as good as the 1050 or Hornady system.  I liked that on the 650 and LNL you could feel the primer going in separate from everything else.

 

If you don't reload that many calibers, get the DIllon 650.  The Hornady's price is initially cheaper, but the support is worse and once you start doing caliber conversions and case feeders, the price difference is negligible between the two at best.

 

If you want to go on the cheaper side of the progressive, I'd recommend a Lee Pro1000 - the primer seating is done on the forward stroke, and doesn't suffer from the same problem as the Loadmaster.  It doesn't separate the primer being seated from the resivior however, just like the Loadmaster, but you can at least feel the primer getting seated.

 

Quote

Just to follow this up : I had this happen to me tonight with my Lee Loadmaster.  All 100 primers blew at once and created a mini grenade, sending plastic chunks into my hand, cutting through my fingernails, and into my buddy's face.  Some blood letting on both of our parts and we were both incredibly shaken by it for a while, but on the whole all things considered we're fine.  My right ear rang for over 3 hours.  The blast was strong enough that it peeled part of the label off of a plastic bottle that was two feet away, and tore the top of a box of loaded ammo of and knocked out 4 of the primers.  I'm going to be taking all of those rounds apart and verifying that everything's cosher with them eventually.

We're lucky.  I just want to remind everybody to ALWAYS wear eye and preferably ear protection when reloading.  I'll be investing in a bunch of full face grinding shields and welder hats to wear when I'm down there, and for others to wear if they come down as well.  Deerskin gloves are also on that list.

I had heard tales about crushed primers and sideways primers on the Lee priming systems.  I had one that went sideways and have loaded several hundred in one sitting with this machine previously - then tonight I had a grenade explode by my hand.

I feel now that there's 2 major issues with the Lee priming system they include with their progressive presses
- it primes on the upstroke when you have 3-4 pieces of brass going into dies, so it's next to impossible to feel if something just isn't right
- there is nothing that separates the primer being pushed into the brass from the stockpile waiting to go in.

I've immediately removed the rest of the priming system from my press so that there is no way any part of the press will touch a primer.  I'll be placing an order for a RCBS hand held priming tool that separates the primer being installed from the rest of them, so if one pops, they don't all explode at once.

Be safe out there people, and dress like you plan on the thing blowing apart on you at any minute.

 

Edited by michael.flitcraft
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My vote is to get a bare bones Dillon 650.  You'll have a solid platform to start reloading with and can add the 'extras' later.  The ergo handle, case feeder, tool rack/additional tools (basic allens come with the 650), sensors (primer & powder) can all be added at a later date with very little effort.  BTW, your current dies should work fine with the Dillon, no need to buy additional dies.

 

Here's (somewhat) a loaded question, ask who on the site regrets purchasing a Dillon...

 

BTW, very neat and organized reloading bench!  It shows attention to detail and pride in what you're doing- a '+' in this hobby.

Edited by muncie21
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I started reloading progressively with a Dillon SDB.  It is a very good, very forgiving press.  When I started shooting more matches, my ammo requirements skyrocketed.  So I went to my local Dillon retailer to buy a faster press.  I was warned off the Dillon 650 because it was "fiddley".  I was advised to get a 500 instead.  I wanted a press with more than 4 stations, so I bought a Hornady LnL AP with case feeder and bullet feeder.  It is a fine press, but I have to fiddle with it also.  The case feeder occasionally jams and I have to clear it.  Sometimes the case doesn't feed into the shell holder correctly.  Sometimes a bullet doesn't drop.  All of these are minor inconveniences, but take time because you have to fiddle with the machine to fix them.

 

If you are going to reload large quantities of a single caliber, and can afford it, consider a Dillon 1050 Super.  My local Dillon shop also does custom reloads for customers.  They have a dozen 1050s running automated, and they run like clockwork.  I briefly considered one.  When I found out it cost $800 per caliber conversion and took three hours to change over, I dropped the idea.

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More than 95% of all USPSA shooters run Dillons (Nationals equipment survey).  Just like the top shooters, they have a choice of guns, they have a choice of re-loaders. You only buy a Dillon once, and even if it's used, it's a lifetime warranty. I have been running a 550 since 1986, and got a Square Deal as match product in 2001. The SD is slightly faster, but the 550 is much more versatile (loads rifle). I would go with a 550 to start.

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Dillon 650 is my vote. I started out with a rock chucker. When that wouldn't produce enough ammo I went to a SDB, and when that wouldn't produce enough I then went to the 650. It took a lot of extra money to figure out what I should have bought in the first place, the 650. Don't make the same mistake I did. You can't load rifle cases on the SDB and you can't load enough on the rock chucker to keep up with your habit..

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