DementedAntics Posted May 14, 2017 Share Posted May 14, 2017 (edited) New shooter here, why does it seem that if you choose to shoot a platform in 9mm, say an M&P9 for instance, there is no class for you to really compete in if you want to mod the gun. Apex trigger goodies in an m&p immediately steps you up to limited and then all of a sudden your at a huge disadvantage having to shoot at minor PF. As a new shooter to the "sport" it feels like you either have to shoot a completely stock gun and not have any fun modding it, even if ever so slightly (trigger and magwell), or you have to buy a 2011 and convert to from shooting 9mm to .40 What options does a new shooter have if they want to just shoot their gun that they already have and mod it a bit. Ex: I have an M&P9 FS 4.25" with an apex trigger kit and want to get a magwell. What are my options for classes that I can shoot and what do you recommend. Edited May 14, 2017 by DementedAntics Clarification of title Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandabooks Posted May 14, 2017 Share Posted May 14, 2017 Apex is legal if you don't change the actual trigger. No go on the magwell but guide rod , Apex barrel, sights are all good in Production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DementedAntics Posted May 14, 2017 Author Share Posted May 14, 2017 3 minutes ago, aandabooks said: Apex is legal if you don't change the actual trigger. No go on the magwell but guide rod , Apex barrel, sights are all good in Production. Why such a stickler over the trigger/face? Maybe it's because I'm new but it seems absurd that you can literally change every part of the gun internally and the Barrel but changing the trigger face is a no-no. Is there a rational explanation for this or was it just something "they" decided was the rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandabooks Posted May 14, 2017 Share Posted May 14, 2017 I haven't been in the sport long enough to answer for sure. Maybe someone who was around when Production was formed can answer that question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Mitch Posted May 14, 2017 Share Posted May 14, 2017 This is a sport. The fun is in the shooting, not in the Barbie's playhouse of gun modification. Do a trigger job, put on a fiber optic front sight, and start practicing. If you don't know what to practice, ask. Or buy the Training to Win DVD. It's a better start than any book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DementedAntics Posted May 14, 2017 Author Share Posted May 14, 2017 7 minutes ago, Dr Mitch said: This is a sport. The fun is in the shooting, not in the Barbie's playhouse of gun modification. Do a trigger job, put on a fiber optic front sight, and start practicing. If you don't know what to practice, ask. Or buy the Training to Win DVD. It's a better start than any book. I agree that it is a sport and there-in lies the fun. But adding a trigger and magwell to the gun is a far cry from Barbie playhouse modding when compared to all the mods open guys run. Thanks for the advice on the training to win DVD I'll check into that. I was more so just trying to get a clear, concise answer to the questions I presented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtturn Posted May 14, 2017 Share Posted May 14, 2017 Limited minor is going to fit you best for your desired gear setup.Limited minor is great for beginners. The difference in major and minor is going to be irrelevant for you until you get some experience in the sport anyway. Don't sweat it, just go out and shoot!Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted May 14, 2017 Share Posted May 14, 2017 6 hours ago, DementedAntics said: I have an M&P9 FS 4.25" with an apex trigger kit and want to get a magwell. What are my options for classes that I can shoot and what do you recommend. As wtturn mentioned, Limited is your best "option for classes you can shoot" with the gun you like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlmiller1 Posted May 14, 2017 Share Posted May 14, 2017 (edited) Production was started for stock guns so new folks could literally buy a gun, bring it out & be competitive. As it grew, uspsa realized that it was nearly impossible to "police" internal mods so they loosened up on that but keeping them stock looking was still possible so thats what they do. If a person wants to say add a magwell to make it easier/faster to reload.... well there goes the stock look plus now off the shelf guns are at a true disadvantage. Limited minor is probably the DIVISION (not class) you should shoot. Just for clarity, Class is the shooter, Division is the equipment. Edited May 14, 2017 by mlmiller1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DementedAntics Posted May 14, 2017 Author Share Posted May 14, 2017 10 hours ago, wtturn said: Limited minor is going to fit you best for your desired gear setup. Limited minor is great for beginners. The difference in major and minor is going to be irrelevant for you until you get some experience in the sport anyway. Don't sweat it, just go out and shoot! Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk Thanks. Looks like that's where I'll be division wise and your right, it's pretty irrelevant at this time as I'm not competing to win at this time. 5 hours ago, Hi-Power Jack said: As wtturn mentioned, Limited is your best "option for classes you can shoot" with the gun you like. I realize the terminology I should have been using is division and not class. I did some digging on minor vs. major and found that you have been shooting limited minor for a while now @Hi-Power Jack. I suppose I'll do the same and see how I progress as a shooter. 5 minutes ago, mlmiller1 said: Production was started for stock guns so new folks could literally buy a gun, bring it out & be competitive. As it grew, uspsa realized that it was nearly impossible to "police" internal mods so they loosened up on that but keeping them stock looking was still possible so thats what they do. If a person wants to say add a magwell to make it easier/faster to reload.... well there goes the stock look plus now off the shelf guns are at a true disadvantage. Limited minor is probably the DIVISION (not class) you should shoot. Just for clarity, Class is the shooter, Division is the equipment. This makes sense. My terminology is not correct. Thanks for the information and clarification of the rules. Seems like they need to allow external trigger mods bc from my reading there are tons of people who are unhappy with being relagated to limited minor for wanting to shoot a 9mm in limited. So what division would one have to shoot with a 2011 STI edge 9mm? I'm assuming limited major correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlmiller1 Posted May 14, 2017 Share Posted May 14, 2017 By USPSA rules, no 9mm bullet can be scored major power factor except in Open division with 1 exception & that is .357sig in limited & lim10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlmiller1 Posted May 14, 2017 Share Posted May 14, 2017 (edited) IOW, 9mm Edge is shooting minor in limited as well. This may clear up why most limited shooters are shooting .40 Edited May 14, 2017 by mlmiller1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted May 14, 2017 Share Posted May 14, 2017 24 minutes ago, DementedAntics said: you have been shooting limited minor for a while now @Hi-Power Jack. I suppose I'll do the same and see how I progress as a shooter. You'll LOVE it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uewpew Posted May 14, 2017 Share Posted May 14, 2017 17 hours ago, DementedAntics said: Why such a stickler over the trigger/face? Maybe it's because I'm new but it seems absurd that you can literally change every part of the gun internally and the Barrel but changing the trigger face is a no-no. Is there a rational explanation for this or was it just something "they" decided was the rule. Practicality of rule enforcement. You can't really enforce "no internal mods" at matches (different springs, sear polishing, etc...) without spending a huge amount of time & training of staff, you can however enforce "no external mods" fairly easily. It may not be a perfect system, but it works well enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWprotected Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 On 5/13/2017 at 10:29 PM, DementedAntics said: I agree that it is a sport and there-in lies the fun. But adding a trigger and magwell to the gun is a far cry from Barbie playhouse modding when compared to all the mods open guys run. Thanks for the advice on the training to win DVD I'll check into that. I was more so just trying to get a clear, concise answer to the questions I presented. True, but that is why it is Open. you can do what you want to your gun. If you like your M&P 9 and want to mod the thing you can shoot open and do whatever makes you happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butterpuc Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 Shooting limited Minor is fun. Mod your pistol out and enjoy... it gives you plenty of time to figure out what you want to do. I have seen seen many people add a sight block (like Taylor Freelance), SJC frame weight, huge magwell, and have a lot of fun. In that configuration it is a very flat recoiling system. You don't have to go all out, start shooting and figure out your mods later. Heck, when I shoot my Glock 19 I almost always shoot in limited minor, just because I don't want to worry with production rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 My M&P 9L had a 2.75lb trigger and was a pleasure to shoot... it was 100% Production legal. The Apex trigger itself isn't needed to have a sweet shooting M&P - all of their other goodies and a little bit of additional know-how go a long way. The only thing you have to legitimately give up if you want to shoot Production is the magwell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KYTrunkMonkey Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 4 hours ago, MemphisMechanic said: My M&P 9L had a 2.75lb trigger and was a pleasure to shoot... it was 100% Production legal. The Apex trigger itself isn't needed to have a sweet shooting M&P - all of their other goodies and a little bit of additional know-how go a long way. The only thing you have to legitimately give up if you want to shoot Production is the magwell. How did you get a 2.75lb trigger with stock trigger in a M&P? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 (edited) The full Apex kit, some experimenting with springs, and some minor Dremel action. 3lbs in an M&P is astonishingly easy. And they still eat CCI primers like candy as long as they're seated below flush. Edited May 16, 2017 by MemphisMechanic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DementedAntics Posted May 16, 2017 Author Share Posted May 16, 2017 3 hours ago, MemphisMechanic said: The full Apex kit, some experimenting with springs, and some minor Dremel action. 3lbs in an M&P is astonishingly easy. And they still eat CCI primers like candy as long as they're seated below flush. By full apex kit what do you mean? - CAEK -DCAEK -DCAEK/CAEK + FSS + RAM Obviously with the trigger shoe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 (edited) I'm not a fan of either the forward set sear nor the reset widget. Neither are worth the money. Just install the entire competition AEK (not duty/carry) and you should be pretty much good to go. Also polish the hell out of anything that moves. Including the hole for the firing pin, sides of the sear along with its hole and pivot pin, and even the extractor and it's cutout. Cannot hurt. Often helps. Edited May 17, 2017 by MemphisMechanic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DementedAntics Posted May 17, 2017 Author Share Posted May 17, 2017 Awesome thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowb1rd Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 Still working up the nerve to enter some local events while practicing my dry fire lol. One day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTJer Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 14 hours ago, Snowb1rd said: Still working up the nerve to enter some local events while practicing my dry fire lol. One day Don't wait. You're going to be kicking yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowb1rd Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 2 hours ago, CTJer said: Don't wait. You're going to be kicking yourself. I already am but I also work 12 days out of 14 which doesn't really leave myself much time to get out there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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