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Most dependable Open Gun?


Broncman

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2 hours ago, ano said:

glock in open will probably the least dependable... 

 

STI, well no thank you, they need so much work you might go with a custom from start, probably easier. 

 

I used to buy all SVI, I own 9 of them... but with the new policy not to sell 9 major guns.. well yeah :/ 

 

so if you want 9 major, akai, atlanta, ck arms, freedom gunworks (alphebetical)

 

for 38 super or comp, you can add SVI to the list. 

SVI doesnt make 9 Major guns anymore? I know Ive seen a few pop up in the classifieds recently in 9.?

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17 minutes ago, Shmella said:

SVI doesnt make 9 Major guns anymore? I know Ive seen a few pop up in the classifieds recently in 9.?

 

It's a new policy.  You won't find the option on your gunbuilder.

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Whats 100% reliable? I shot my main open gun more than 10.000 rounds last year IN MATCH in 2016.  I racked once, it was sub zero and still not sure what happend, FTF.

 

Buddy got his 9 major imm just months ago, but it was orderd ages ago. (damn nice, has run right since day 1) but now you cant order it.

 

I load my 9 major to 1.21-1.22 usually with alsa pro 124gr, at that length, its really the same as 38 super, its just shorter brass, the amount of powder is hefty, talking close to 9gr 3n38. 

 

 

Im honestly a bit torn as I've been true to SVI always, I can do of course run 38 super or 38 supercomp, I have 3 guns in that caliber allready, but for me 9 major has been more reliable than 38 super/comp, running aftec and changeing springs/doing maintenance. the long sleeck 9 feeds so nice, not binding anywhere. I just dont feel 38 super gives anything than easier to tune ejector maybe theese days. 

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4 minutes ago, ano said:

Whats 100% reliable? I shot my main open gun more than 10.000 rounds last year IN MATCH in 2016.  I racked once, it was sub zero and still not sure what happend, FTF.

 

I load my 9 major to 1.21-1.22 usually with alsa pro 124gr, at that length, its really the same as 38 super, its just shorter brass, the amount of powder is hefty, talking close to 9gr 3n38. 

 

You got me there, if it was sub zero at a match, the gun would be in the range bag and I'd be on my way home.

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I think you're in the range of a custom pistol. You might want to check to be sure. Dan Bedell of Bedell Custom built my open and limited guns and they have been incredibly reliable. His work is beautiful and he backs his guns 100%. A 2011 is the way to go, you wouldn't be disappointed. 

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I think all open guns from majority of reputable builders can be reliable.  However, unless you load your own ammo and figure out what works specifically with that gun I don't think any of them "new" are ultra reliable, as in don't buy a new one and go to a match with it.  Might be hit or miss. 

 

CK's are known to be super tight when you get the gun - lots of break in time. Also you have to plunk test your ammo to see if you should ream your chamber, they're known to be short. 

 

SVI don't make 9 major anymore.  Same thing though, needs break in - ammo trial. 

 

My friends Tru-bore-  had a spring binding issue, as well as he changed over to a 90 degree optic mount to aid in proper ejection.  

 

My current gun is an Atlas Chaos - I had a spring issue when I received mine, and had to increase spring weight, now it's awesome.  


 

 

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A out of the box reliable open gun is kind of like a unicorn isn't it? I think I would have to agree with nbot, you have to do the homework on your end as far as loads for that particular gun. And you have to keep up with the maintenance not only on the gun but also the mags to keep it running reliably. 

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2 hours ago, nbot said:

 

 

CK's are known to be super tight when you get the gun - lots of break in time. Also you have to plunk test your ammo to see if you should ream your chamber, they're known to be short. 

 

 

 

Yes, they are tight but the short chamber thing is a myth. I've only heard of one with a short chamber. 

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Yes, they are tight but the short chamber thing is a myth. I've only heard of one with a short chamber. 


I got a CK a week ago. It is indeed very tight, but broke in quickly. The chamber is very short, so ive sent the barrel to Matt who is reaming it out for me. Should have the barrel back next week.


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6 hours ago, dapribek said:

I think you're in the range of a custom pistol. You might want to check to be sure. Dan Bedell of Bedell Custom built my open and limited guns and they have been incredibly reliable. His work is beautiful and he backs his guns 100%. A 2011 is the way to go, you wouldn't be disappointed. 

 

Eh, what does "back 100%" mean?

I had a Bedell limited gun a few years ago... slide cracked.  Paid a lot of money for parts and labor for him to re build.  

It cracked in a different spot about a year later.  Had someone else rebuild it. 

(Oh and to address a different post in this thread, neither were tr-topped) 

 

I say all that just to say... these guns are not predicable.  There's no "right" answer, there's no "most reliable", there's no "best gunsmith".  Sorry, it's just the way it is. 

You may end up with a gun that runs out of the box, and runs for 10 years, or you may end up with one that is a pain, or cracks 6 months later. 

 

Find a builder you can communicate with, or is within driving distance.  Learn the gun, learn how to tune it, learn how to maintain it. Find someone local that REALLY knows the nuisances of a 2011 (not just anyone at the local club that bought an Open gun in the last year) and have them teach you. 

 

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I went with my friends GrandMaster Trubor he was getting rid of, he has like 800 guns... reason I bought it was I KNOW it ran 9mm reliably. In fact it runs factory and my minor ammo too.

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Either 9 or super can be made to run. 

 

Super costs more to buy brass but you can easily load them 20+ times (IF you get them back) and since it's all good brass you have no issues with stepped brass, out of spec stuff or crimped pockets. 

 

9mm is cheap or even free. But if you want the gun to run you will have to spend time sorting the brass. Removing steel and alloy cases. Removing stepped brass, swaging or removing crimped brass, removing or roll sizing bulged 9mm. Guys who just gather up buckets and run whatever are the ones digging out cases from the chamber after dnf'ing a stage, or dealing with bulges that won't chamber etc. 

 

if you want reliable you either pay in cash (super comp) or with time (9mm). 

 

The number 1 open gun failure is ammo related. So get your load sorted and some level of qc and that will go a long way towards happy times. 

 

Number 2 cause is probably magazines. They need regular cleaning and periodic tubing and spring and even follower replacement. Keep on top of that and again you'll have a good time. 

 

Number 3 I would say is dirty or under lubed guns. There is not really such a thing as too much oil. I used to like grease but these days I'm sold on the thin oil idea (and plenty of it). Thin oil does get pushed out of the gun so it needs to be replenished fairly often. Well lubed is most important but clean is good too. I'll add to this general gun maintenance. Common open gun issues are things like: loose grip screws, loose scope mount screws, loose comp and so on. You need to keep a good eye on all the guns screws and parts. 

 

Number 4 cause of malfs I'd say is home smithing. Ie took too much pressure off the sear spring, fitted a new part that is not fitted right or untested etc. so go slowly with the home mods and double check your work. Also see the loose screws part of number 3. 

 

Number 5 is the gun. Sadly sometimes you do steps 1-4 really well but the bastard still won't run. Slide touching comp is a common open gun f$&k up. Incorrect link. Poor barrel fit. Timing off. Comp not align reamed. There are many little things a smith can have stuffed up that will give head scratching malfs. 

 

The good news is items 1-4 are within your control. Item 5 is not really. You can choose the best smith out there and still sometimes get the 'Friday afternoon' gun. No one is infallible. But there are many guys who put out solid product most of the time. Start with one of those and go from there. :)

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12 hours ago, scooterj said:

Yes, they are tight but the short chamber thing is a myth. I've only heard of one with a short chamber. 

Absolutely not a myth.

 

Both of my CK Thunder 9's purchased this year have short throats. Many other reports of the same on BE. 

Max I load to in my CK's is 1.130-1.135 OAL with MG JHP's - bullets contact throat at 1.140-1.145.

 

Also, many folks simply do not plunk test their loads. Just because someone loads to 1.165 does not confirm the bullet isn't pushed into the throat a little in that gun.

 

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There are a lot of good open gun builders out there. I say builders because in my opinion having one built minimizes the problems you have a greater chance to encounter with assembly line semi-custom guns. Mainly because a reputable builder test fires their builds in order to make adjustments during the build process. Whereas assembly lines slap things together, QC visually inspects and shoots a few through it to make sure it wont blow up and that it!. I have a "new to open" friend who bought a CK (dont recall the model) and it is a nice gun but it had some super stiff lockup, yanking it open on an empty chamber was harsh! The barrel lucks showed shearing/peening from a way to tight fit. Then my Dad's STI trubor was apparently made on a Friday after a company cocktail party as he had it completely re-worked. STI USPSA Single Stack had a barrel replaced twice with a new slide that second time as it was inaccurate. My STI Trojan had hammer follow in 500 rounds etc etc.That's examples of what potential shortcomings you run the risk of getting with semi-custom production. So if its reliability you want have one built and minimize the bells and whistles to keep the cost down. I personally have a Bedell Custom 38 Super Comp and it has been flawless without one hiccup since I got it. It is also tack driving accurate. As you said spend once and cry once...GO FULL CUSTOM OPEN!

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15 hours ago, BeerBaron said:

The number 1 open gun failure is ammo related. So get your load sorted and some level of qc and that will go a long way towards happy times. 

 

Number 2 cause is probably magazines. They need regular cleaning and periodic tubing and spring and even follower replacement. Keep on top of that and again you'll have a good time. 

 

Number 3 I would say is dirty or under lubed guns. There is not really such a thing as too much oil. I used to like grease but these days I'm sold on the thin oil idea (and plenty of it). Thin oil does get pushed out of the gun so it needs to be replenished fairly often. Well lubed is most important but clean is good too. I'll add to this general gun maintenance. Common open gun issues are things like: loose grip screws, loose scope mount screws, loose comp and so on. You need to keep a good eye on all the guns screws and parts. 

 

Number 4 cause of malfs I'd say is home smithing. Ie took too much pressure off the sear spring, fitted a new part that is not fitted right or untested etc. so go slowly with the home mods and double check your work. Also see the loose screws part of number 3. 

 

Number 5 is the gun. Sadly sometimes you do steps 1-4 really well but the bastard still won't run. Slide touching comp is a common open gun f$&k up. Incorrect link. Poor barrel fit. Timing off. Comp not align reamed. There are many little things a smith can have stuffed up that will give head scratching malfs. 

4

 

Such a great info!!

 

Is Tanfoglio gold team a good option for the OP?

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2 hours ago, BallisticianX said:

There are a lot of good open gun builders out there. I say builders because in my opinion having one built minimizes the problems you have a greater chance to encounter with assembly line semi-custom guns. Mainly because a reputable builder test fires their builds in order to make adjustments during the build process. Whereas assembly lines slap things together, QC visually inspects and shoots a few through it to make sure it wont blow up and that it!. I have a "new to open" friend who bought a CK (dont recall the model) and it is a nice gun but it had some super stiff lockup, yanking it open on an empty chamber was harsh! The barrel lucks showed shearing/peening from a way to tight fit. Then my Dad's STI trubor was apparently made on a Friday after a company cocktail party as he had it completely re-worked. STI USPSA Single Stack had a barrel replaced twice with a new slide that second time as it was inaccurate. My STI Trojan had hammer follow in 500 rounds etc etc.That's examples of what potential shortcomings you run the risk of getting with semi-custom production. So if its reliability you want have one built and minimize the bells and whistles to keep the cost down. I personally have a Bedell Custom 38 Super Comp and it has been flawless without one hiccup since I got it. It is also tack driving accurate. As you said spend once and cry once...GO FULL CUSTOM OPEN!

Dan Bedell Custom. As said above go plain and save lots of money.  Dan doesn't build for show but for go.  Tell him your main priority is function and reliability.  It won't matter the gun will run.  He'll set a 9 up to run long ammo with out a doubt.  IF you go 38SC you'll have "IMO" a slightly smoother running gun.  BUT I love the thought of shooting the stage and walking away knowing I can get all the brass I need from the range barrel.  It really has been a joy to shoot 9 because of the no brass hassle.

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Such a great info!!
 
Is Tanfoglio gold team a good option for the OP?

I had a Tanfo Gold Team.....that's why I now have a 2011. They have short throats and poorly engineered extractors that are short in length and too small of a face to adjust for tuning the brass kick. They consistently fail to clear brass of the chamber. Their extractors are weak, broke 2 in a year. I had a 9mm which is more problematic than the 38 Super. But I've been squadded with 3 38 super tanfo shooters so far this year and they all had issues. I will compliment Tanfo Gold Team owners as they are the most proficient at handling malfunctions on the clock!


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