low vs high hits

[corey4]

i took a buddy shooting that wants to get in to uspsa.  we started off slow, with the ball and dummy drill (no flinch, which surprised me) and did some draw and 2 rounds on target just so i could get a baseline of his draw time, split time, and where he was hitting.  i noticed all of his second round hits were very low.  at 10 yards, they were about 8" low, damn near right under his first shot.  i do remember reading sometime, somewhere that this could be due to recoil spring, or something?  someone also had a away to diagnose what was going on if second round hits were low/high.  any input would be much appreciated.

 

gun is a bone stock glock 17 gen4, his reloads were from his dad, which were 115gr, but he had no idea what speed or power charge.

[Racinready300ex]

So in theory at least tuning the springs can have a affect on follow up shots. None of my  guns have the stock recoil spring in them, and it would probably be worth dropping to something like a 13 lbs spring. Some glock guy can chime in with a better recomendation.

 

That said, as a new shooter he probably doesn't need to be worrying about that to much. Certainly not trying to tune how his gun recoils. Most likely he needs to improve his technique. My guess would be he is "double tapping". Before I would start to worry about this he should be able to call the second shot low.

 

Does he see the sight during both shots? I'm guessing he doesn't.

[benos]

No matter what recoil spring is in the gun, it is the shooter that shoots the second shot low.

[Hi-Power Jack]

Double tap, or just not enough grip with the weak hand on the pistol.

 

Springs might help, though - but they'd have to be lighter but enough for the

PF of the ammo (need a chrono).

[corey4]

good points about not worrying about the recoil spring.  let's disregard that for now for new shooters.  he didn't even bring it up, it was just a thought i had from what i think i remember reading about that.

 

so i'll have have focus more on grip pressure/strength then and keeping his wrists locked.  i forgot to mention and explain that to him.  he says he can see his sights, but when i ask him if he knows where he hit, he says he doesn't know.  we did go over seeing his sights correctly before he fires his second shot, he says he does, but he drops them all low.  crazy consistent too!  first shot almost dead center, second shot, 8" low at 6 o'clock.  2nd string, half inch to right or left, 2nd shot 8" low at 6 o'clock and so forth. it was weird lol.  i'll also have him worry more about going slower and getting good hits.  it was probably my fault for trying to speed him up too quickly his first time out "doing real shooting" as he said.

 

he actually did pretty well for his first time out "doing real shooting" not just standing there and killing paper without a clue.  most people i take out it's quite interesting.  i'm sure y'all have been there, done that lol.  now that i think about it, when didn't work too much on grip and locked wrists because he was doing better than i thought.  again, my fault.

 

any other thoughts or ideas that i am missing?

[MemphisMechanic]

A newer shooter will not be able to accurately fire their second round faster than a .40-.50 split without their trigger finger pulling the gun off-target. Perhaps an even longer split.

 

He's shooting faster than he can aim round #2.  If you're encouraging speed, you aren't helping at that point.

 

Emphiasize instead that no one in our sport "double taps" and that the goal is to fire two well-aimed shots at all times. We see the front sight on every single shot. That over time the interval between his shots  will decrease on its own.

 

How rapidly the trigger is being pulled is the last place you gain significant speed when learning USPSA. Split times are very far down the list of things to improve. Focus on the things that cost full seconds, not tenths. Draws, reloads, running instead of walking between positions.

 

Edited May 13, 2017 by MemphisMechanic

[Hi-Power Jack]

I find that shooting reactive targets is very helpful in learning to

 

aim both shots - Very Easy to miss piece of steel or bowling pin

 

if you fire the 2nd shot too rapidly.     

[SlvrDragon50]

14 hours ago, Hi-Power Jack said:

I find that shooting reactive targets is very helpful in learning to

 

aim both shots - Very Easy to miss piece of steel or bowling pin

 

if you fire the 2nd shot too rapidly.     

This was an eye opener for me yesterday. First time practicing on steel, and I missed my second SA shot a lot more than I thought on a piece of steel 10yds away.

[wanttolearn]

it was my experience (albeit limited), that less experience shooters strive hard to visualize/confirm the placement of their first shot, taking into consideration the difference in height plane between that of the sights and that of the barrel.... compounded with anticipation, the resultant second shot tends to be lower..

 

i hope that makes sense.

Edited May 22, 2017 by wanttolearn

[KYTrunkMonkey]

My guess would be he is looking to see where his first shot hit, and therefore looking over the sights on the second shot, sending it low.

[bradsteimel]

New shooter... needs to make sure he gets an acceptable sight picture for BOTH shots.  It's not a double tap.

Might suggest moving the target far enough away that he doesn't even consider double tapping, and MUST aim the gun twice.