9mm OAL

[Snowb1rd]

Hey all,

 

Pretty new to reloading, just setup my Dillon 550L with Lee 9mm Dies and got some load data from a member here. He recommended 1.14" for my CZ Shadow. How precise does this need to be?

 

When I did a run of 50, I found the variance to be from 1.135" up to 1.147". Being the OCPD type that I am, I went back and resized them all to 1.140 +/- 0.002. Too much?

 

Thanks

[CZ85Combat]

#1 For OAL you need to find out what your Shadow's barrel uses!  What someone uses in their gun may or may not work in your gun.  Do the push test.  This link will help you out.  Start at post #3

http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=34225.0

[Dink]

In my opinion +/- .007 is not a problem if you are using mixed brass. I run my Shadow loads at 1.135. Im sure it would handle your loads with no problem.

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[Snowb1rd]

9 minutes ago, CZ85Combat said:

#1 For OAL you need to find out what your Shadow's barrel uses!  What someone uses in their gun may or may not work in your gun.  Do the push test.  This link will help you out.  Start at post #3

http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=34225.0

 

I should clarify that I purchased the CZ Shadow from him lol. I'll take a look at the link. Thanks!

[Snowb1rd]

Also, is there such thing as "too much crimp" for 9mm? for these first 50 rounds, I was going off some random youtube video that stated you want to get a decent crimp on 9mm with the Lee FCD. I can see that right on the case mouth is a tiny lining of what I assume to be crimping and it flows pretty smooth from the bullet to the case with minimal nail hangup.

 

Then I come on here and read about how you shouldn't crimp 9mm, and just run it into the die enough to "remove the bell".

 

Am I gonna blow myself up with crimped 9mm rounds?

[BombSquad]

Just measure the thickness of the case. You can take an average if it's mixed brass, doesn't matter. Add two thicknesses of the brass to the bullet diameter set your dies there. You just want to remove the bell from the powder die. 

 

ETA: I've had no problems doing it as I described. I've read of and seen issues with over crimping like keyholes in targets and reduced neck tension. Reduced neck tension could cause setback and give you a kaboom. 

Edited May 9, 2017 by BombSquad

[RickT]

When you're trying to figure out OAL make dummy loads only (no primer/no powder).  You can start a bit on the long size and re-size the same cartridge until the dummy round passes "plunk".  Whatever the OAL that works you'll want to be slightly under; make a few more dummies.  When I starting running ammo I'll plunk 10-20 just to verify particularly since a loaded press can introduce an OAL shift.  Fortunately, it's easy to "shrink" rounds by .005".  I'd highly recommend a Redding Competition seater which makes it a snap, particularly if you're running ammo for different 9mm handguns with varying OAL requirements.

[Hi-Power Jack]

7 hours ago, Snowb1rd said:

Am I gonna blow myself up with crimped 9mm rounds?

 

No.

 

Too much crimp might affect accuracy (the crimp damages the bullet),

and it might crinkle the brass which might interfere with the chambering

process.

 

Too little crimp, and the round will not feed into the chamber.

 

Each time you change bullets (grains, or mfgr) you should run

The Plunk Test again for that individual bullet type.     

[rustybayonet]

18 hours ago, Snowb1rd said:

When I did a run of 50, I found the variance to be from 1.135" up to 1.147".

Seems like a big variance for a 550

18 hours ago, Snowb1rd said:

I went back and resized them all to 1.140 +/- 0.002. Too much?

That sounds much better

[Snowb1rd]

Sizing up the OAL with only one round in the bullet seater position gave me consistent 1.140" OAL. However when running the press in full progressive mode, the OAL jumps all over the place giving me that variance. A short run of 20 consistently produced an OAL of 1.149". What gives? I assume that the press isnt fully pressing down on the boolit when all stations are running

[Bullets]

15 minutes ago, Snowb1rd said:

Sizing up the OAL with only one round in the bullet seater position gave me consistent 1.140" OAL. However when running the press in full progressive mode, the OAL jumps all over the place giving me that variance. A short run of 20 consistently produced an OAL of 1.149". What gives? I assume that the press isnt fully pressing down on the boolit when all stations are running

The shell plate flexes when all stations are running. I would plunk test that. 1.149 sounds long for a shadow. My 147 blue bullets I have to load at 1.120 in order for them not to hit the rifling in my shadow. Think they say a variance within .005 is acceptable. 

Edited May 9, 2017 by Bullets

[jschweg]

You don't need much crimp with 9mm and setback isn't usually a major problem because the case is already tapered to begin with. You aren't really crimping to actually crimp, you're just taking the bell out so it will chamber. I always use the formula that someone already mentioned, 2x the case thickness at the mouth + the bullet diameter.

 

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[Sarge]

18 minutes ago, jschweg said:

You don't need much crimp with 9mm and setback isn't usually a major problem because the case is already tapered to begin with. You aren't really crimping to actually crimp, you're just taking the bell out so it will chamber. I always use the formula that someone already mentioned, 2x the case thickness at the mouth + the bullet diameter.

 

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But the taper gets wider as the bullet goes deeper? With certain headstamp 9mm setback is a real problem. Of course a Udie eliminates any concerns.

[ltdmstr]

Unlike some revolver cartridges which use a roll crimp to prevent setback (primarily for high recoil magnum rounds), semiauto cartridges use a roll crimp, which is not designed to prevent setback, but merely to facilitate feeding.  For semiauto cartridges, you prevent setback by properly sizing the case for an interference fit.  Adding more crimp doesn't help, and after a point, will have an adverse affect on accuracy.

[jschweg]

But the taper gets wider as the bullet goes deeper? With certain headstamp 9mm setback is a real problem. Of course a Udie eliminates any concerns.

Sorry, my post didn't make sense. What I was trying to elude to was the coke bottle taper right behind the bullet that you get with the carbide Dillon Dies. All my reloads look like little pinup girls.

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[Sarge]

9 hours ago, jschweg said:

 

Sorry, my post didn't make sense. What I was trying to elude to was the coke bottle taper right behind the bullet that you get with the carbide Dillon Dies. All my reloads look like little pinup girls.

Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk
 

 

And that's a good thing. Call it coke bottle or wasp waist. Either way, it's what you want to keep bullets in place.

[lgh]

On 5/8/2017 at 9:06 PM, Snowb1rd said:

When I did a run of 50, I found the variance to be from 1.135" up to 1.147". Being the OCPD type that I am, I went back and resized them all to 1.140 +/- 0.002. Too much

I'm guessing that many folks here have the same variation as you do and don't worry about it as long as the gun is running and there are no safety issues like bullet setback. You might have to be a bit more concerned if you are running at max pressure but most people shooting 9 minor are not doing that.  Also realize that there is variation in your brass and bullets and so that will show up in the variation of  your finished product.

[IHAVEGAS]

On 5/8/2017 at 10:59 PM, RickT said:

I'd highly recommend a Redding Competition seater which makes it a snap, particularly if you're running ammo for different 9mm handguns with varying OAL requirements.

 

Not cheap but really nice. I called Redding about the spring effecting consistency of oal & ended up removing it from mine after discussing.

 

On 5/8/2017 at 9:33 PM, Snowb1rd said:

 

Am I gonna blow myself up with crimped 9mm rounds?

 

If you do we need pictures  .

 

What OAL you need for your CZ depends somewhat on bullet shape. I have too many CZ's and they all do well at 1.15 with sns 147 grain flat points. Shorter caused me occasional feed failures.

 

Crimping needs probably vary a bit with bullet specifications also, Montana golds for example tend to have a hard and slick surface and are sized at .354 diameter if memory serves, what I shoot (again from memory) has a softer surface and is sized at .356 . There is probably one crimp setting that works well for both, but I would look hard at how I am doing things if I changed to the harder and smaller diameter bullet. 

 

[Sarge]

15 hours ago, ltdmstr said:

Unlike some revolver cartridges which use a roll crimp to prevent setback (primarily for high recoil magnum rounds), semiauto cartridges use a roll crimp, which is not designed to prevent setback, but merely to facilitate feeding.  For semiauto cartridges, you prevent setback by properly sizing the case for an interference fit.  Adding more crimp doesn't help, and after a point, will have an adverse affect on accuracy.

Taper

[osw333]

When i was shooting spi shadow custom, my oal is around 1.135 147gr, different brass will give you different length. I run over 10k plus and had zero problem.

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[IHAVEGAS]

9 hours ago, osw333 said:

different brass will give you different length

 

 

??? I have not noticed that. 

[Snowb1rd]

So good news: I was able to get out to the desert today to test my first batch of homemade loads.

 

9mm, 124gr Bayou, 4.1gr N320, OAL 1.140",  CCI small pistol primers, mixed random brass

 

Shot out of a CZC Shadow Target

 

1. Did not blow myself up!

2. All loaded and ejected just fine

3. Was hitting steel from 10yrds as well as i normally do so i assume no accuracy issues (will have to do a formal benchrest accuracy test)

4. Loved the recoil impulse (may just be me trying to convince myself that these are better than factory) 

 

Overall, major win and it was quite fun for me to witness success. Thanks all for the help in this thread. I learned quite a bit reading here from you all.

Edited May 13, 2017 by Snowb1rd

[MikieM]

Fun, ain't it?

Sounds like you're doing it by the numbers to me. You didn't blow yourself up, check. Feeding and ejecting was fine, check. Accuracy was acceptable, check. Recoil was tolerable, check.

As for convincing yourself that your homemade ammo is better than store bought, don't give it another thought. It's way better. After all, factory ammo is made for all those millions of guns out there whereas your ammo is the only ammo in the world made specifically for your gun. 

[Hi-Power Jack]

28 minutes ago, Snowb1rd said:

  I learned quite a bit reading here from you.

 

No reason to stop now ...

 

Keep reading ....

 

You can go back and read the OLD postings on any subject you'd like ....  great stuff in the archives  

[ltdmstr]

On 5/10/2017 at 11:35 AM, Sarge said:

Taper

Thanks.  Brain fade on my part.