You faster with your PCC or Pistol?

[WaJim]

On 5/8/2017 at 1:29 PM, Maximis228 said:

 

This is why the classification system just needs to go away.

Really...?

 

No classification?

 

The division is new...it will find its own level eventually.

 

Seems like the rub is mag changing.....I saw some horrendous attempts last weekend.....pretty soon the 3 minute mag swap with a jam will be a thing of the past....scores and classification levels will change.

 

As it should.

 

On its own

 

 

 

 

Edited May 11, 2017 by WaJim

[L9X25]

"Seems like the rub is mag changing.....I saw some horrendous attempts last weekend.....pretty soon the 3 minute mag swap with a jam will be a thing of the past....scores and classification levels will change."

 

I think that is where the "Mech Tech" style of carbines shine, they can reload just as fast as a comparable pistol.

Edited May 11, 2017 by L9X25

[gatortommy]

As with any other gun in any other division, it comes down to one thing. Lots of practice. My reloads started out at around 2 seconds. With countless hours of practice, I've got it down to where it's similar to my pistol reloads. Here's video of the classifier I shot last Saturday- El Pres. in 5.03 seconds, good for a 93%. Don't know the time on the reload, but I was happy with it. And I'm gonna keep practicing.

 

 

[Shepard]

I've only been at the PCC hard for a few months but I'm seeing rapid improvement in the basic skills like mag changes.  I think, overall, PCC has a huge advantage during classifiers since we don't have to turn, shoot one handed, or draw from the holster.  Because we don't perform the classifiers the same as the other divisions we need our own hit factors or we'll all be classified much higher than we can perform during a match. 

[jlo86cj]

Minor scoring and reloads are the only things hindering PCC vs Open on the current HHF's. A lot of PCC shooters don't practice reloads, but the ones that do are finding it doesn't take much to get fast. My biggest hindrance in the beginning was being left handed and shooting a Glock mag lower. I switched to an MPX after nationals and reloads are no longer a problem.

At least once a week I spend 30 minutes of my dry-fire on an unloaded el-prez. It helps me work on unloaded starts from the belt, transitions and reloads. I've been hitting 5.00 par times pretty consistently the last couple of times.

[Maximis228]

7 hours ago, WaJim said:

Really...?

 

No classification?

 

The division is new...it will find its own level eventually.

 

Seems like the rub is mag changing.....I saw some horrendous attempts last weekend.....pretty soon the 3 minute mag swap with a jam will be a thing of the past....scores and classification levels will change.

 

As it should.

 

On its own

 

 

 

 

 

It has nothing to do with PCC as a new division but rather how people look at their skill set. I was referring to the person saying they liked being in "B" instead of "A".

[WaJim]

5 hours ago, Maximis228 said:

 

It has nothing to do with PCC as a new division but rather how people look at their skill set. I was referring to the person saying they liked being in "B" instead of "A".

 

I see what your'e saying now.....

 

There's a classifier match here local this weekend. I'm pretty sure i could make B. but I'm not going. My match % and Classifier % are darn near exact. Some matches I score above C but that sometimes depends on who shows up. Ill shoot a rainy match that most GM's will pass on.

 

I don't want to be a Paper B shooter. Ill move up naturally when my skill set improves.

 

When the dust settles PCC will find its level....I have confidence that B's will be B's.

[NervousEnergy]

On ‎5‎/‎8‎/‎2017 at 9:31 AM, Shepard said:

Interesting results. For the sake of conversation my observations are a little different. We average  50-60 shooters with 4-5 M/GM depending on who shows up. Typically the same people are in the hunt for HOA regardless of what they shoot. At this weekend's match, out of 68 shooters PCC finished: 

2nd 

23rd

31

32

33

62nd

63rd

In my humble opinion the only platform with a clear advantage is Open. Is has the dot and scores major. The PCC helps me when the shots are 20+ yards for stability and trigger control. Inside of 20 yards the bonus, for me, is the dot not the rifle platform. Its 3 feet long, 8lbs loaded, and scores minor.  And, the majority of targets are well inside 20 yards.  As far as mag changes, I really think it depends on skill level not platform. Of the A and better shooters I know they don't really consider mag changes an issue as long as there is a little movement between positions.  So the question is why, on the average USPSA stage, does the PCC help some people and hinder others? Aside from the dot which Open and Carry Optics have I think the PCC helps some people with their trigger control.  Of course, as trigger control skill increases the benefit of the rifle platform lessens and some of its negatives creep in.

I hope my comments are not perceived as argumentative. I really enjoy the PCC vs ______ conversation and intend it to be light-hearted.   

 

Great topic, and my experience here in the Dallas area mirrors Shepards, but without that 2nd place finish on the list.  USPSA is VERY competitive here, with 70 shooters showing up to most matches, and there's always 6-7 GMs, and another 10 Masters.  I've only seen PCC shoot Master level on a couple of occasions, and the GMs with open pistols blow us away.  Note that the stage designers around here absolutely LOVE tight, tricky stages with lots of ports, hard angles, and tons of memory games (many shooting positions covering multiple targets... did I already shoot that one???).  Very few shots are all that long.  We do have plate racks and the occasional Texas Star, where the PCC really helps, but lots of transitions and tight stage designs make maneuvering the PCC quite a bit more challenging than the pistol.

 

Regarding the classifiers:  I absolutely think it needs to be re-thought for PCC.  I'm somewhat new to USPSA in general (shooting for 18 months), and very new to PCC (just started in February), but the static classifiers don't reflect stage skills.  I've shot 5 classifiers and have a B rating, but I don't have the movement skills of that level, particularly entering shooting positions, that others have.  Anyone can stand still and shoot A's all day with a rifle and red dot... the wins and losses come in movement. 

[gatortommy]

1 hour ago, NervousEnergy said:

Regarding the classifiers:  I absolutely think it needs to be re-thought for PCC.  I'm somewhat new to USPSA in general (shooting for 18 months), and very new to PCC (just started in February), but the static classifiers don't reflect stage skills.  I've shot 5 classifiers and have a B rating, but I don't have the movement skills of that level, particularly entering shooting positions, that others have.  Anyone can stand still and shoot A's all day with a rifle and red dot... the wins and losses come in movement.

 

I agree that we really need to be using PCC high hit factors, not Open. Hopefully, this will be implemented soon.

 

As for the classifier system in general, it does a good job of measuring one's ability to stand and shoot classifiers. Sometimes that correlates with one's ability to shoot matches and sometimes it doesn't. I guess it's the best system that we can come up with.

[1911luvr]

Today's USPSA match had 65 shooters, 7 of which were PCC. The PCC guys pretty much swept the match, finishing 1-2-3-5-6-41-55. The farthest target was 40 yards, and all six stages were 30-33 rounds. The advantage shifted towards PCC today because the hardcover was oriented in such a way that it was easy to manipulate the rifle around. None of the windows actually required putting the muzzle through the window, so sweeping through shooting areas was actually pretty easy. I expect stage designers will start making things tougher on the PCC guys as a result of the carnage today.


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[L9X25]

40 yard shots and lots of stages with 30+ rounds definitely shifts the balance to PCC shooters.  Our matches are not quite that hard on the pistol shooters, so I think that they have a better chance at our matches, but ours are longer than what Nervous Energy describes at his matches.   The advantage will come down to stage design and a balanced match can make it even.  

[Stlhead]

The classifier system has only one purpose, to get more money from the members.  

[Dr Mitch]

Depends on the stage

[benlineberry]

PCC expands the sport to people who would not come, otherwise. I think that's a good thing.

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[Broncman]

Set up on 3 classifiers today, Front Sight, Too Close for Comfort,and Now Both Sides #1.

 

This is a mix of mag changes, around a Barrier and transitions.

 

With no practice at all with my PCC, I beat my CO score and time but not by much. Faster with pistol, more accurate with PCC. Transition on single shots faster with pistol. Reloads suck on PCC.

 

But man can I rock and roll on the doubletap and transitions with no barriers on the PCC. HF higher due to better score, not necessarily time...

 

[ncg34shooter]

I enjoy the PCC much better than my limited gun it's a blast with the rifle. I found myself doing much better in PCC partly due to the fact I have been doing a ton of dry fire and practice at the range. I made B in limited fairly easy I'm .5 percent from A in limited. But it has been a struggle to make A. I made A within 7 classifiers on the PCC. I hope to make master soon but it Is gonna be work. I'm seeing the benefits of the extra practice and I am pushing myself to get better. I definitely plan to continue with the PCC for the foreseeable future. 

 

Edited May 15, 2017 by ncg34shooter
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