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Rules for scoring level 2 matches


chad72

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<<Are competitors allowed to score targets for an ro after they finish shooting a stage?>>

L2's generaly have dedicated RO's.  I have never been to an L2 where the shooter was scoring targets.

 

At a  L2 you can expect to be stopped if you run around with your finger in the trigger guard.

 

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19 minutes ago, chad72 said:

Are competitors allowed to score targets for an ro after they finish shooting a stage? Also, does uspsa allow a "finger" call to the shooter like idpa?

Only range officers are to score targets, if the r.o. didn't  see the target and score it, and it was pasted, it is a mandatory reshoot. 

 

Safety warnings like Finger are for level 1 club matches, if an R.O. see' s a finger in the trigger guard when it isn't supposed to be, the proper Range Command is Stop, unload and show clear, if clear hammer down,  holster.

 

Then call the RM.

 

 

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We had this guy, that the ro kept yelling FINGER,  clearly the finger was on the trigger, while running, and reloading. 

The squad scored targets for the ro, I mostly never saw my hits.

Then I heard 1 stage was illegal 

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2 minutes ago, chad72 said:

We had this guy, that the ro kept yelling FINGER,  clearly the finger was on the trigger, while running, and reloading. 

The squad scored targets for the ro, I mostly never saw my hits.

Then I heard 1 stage was illegal 

 Was the r.o. certified by NROI?

 

If so, they need to be retrained.

 

The squad isn't supposed to score their targets, only the range officers on that stage are. 

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Hmm,, that's interesting, I think I know which match that was. I never saw a lot of hits after I shot, and after bagging my pcc I did have to go  reset half the stage I just shot, steel was never painted after each shooter either. 

1 stage seemed to have targets behind us. 

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28 minutes ago, dvrdwn72 said:

Hmm,, that's interesting, I think I know which match that was. I never saw a lot of hits after I shot, and after bagging my pcc I did have to go  reset half the stage I just shot, steel was never painted after each shooter either. 

1 stage seemed to have targets behind us. 



4.3.1.7  Metal scoring targets must, if hit, be painted after each competitor. An inadvertent failure to paint one or more targets prior to a competitor’s attempt at the course of fire shall not be grounds for a reshoot.

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Sounds like you had someone that wasn't familiar with our rule book. Someone else working the stage should have known better and brought it the the MD attention 

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1 hour ago, dvrdwn72 said:

Hmm,, that's interesting, I think I know which match that was. I never saw a lot of hits after I shot, and after bagging my pcc I did have to go  reset half the stage I just shot, steel was never painted after each shooter either. 

1 stage seemed to have targets behind us. 

 

If the ROs are doing the scoring, while keeping the muzzle up on your PCC, you are permitted to follow and verify the hits.

 

Its not the job of the RO to tape targets and paint steel.  At best they can request the shooters do the work, but if they don't, then what?

 

Sounds like the squad was the problem, not the ROs.

 

Bill

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2 hours ago, bret said:

 

Safety warnings like Finger are for level 1 club matches,

 

 

There is no limitation in 8.6.1 (or elsewhere) that restricts warnings to only L1 Club matches ... While I agree they should become rarely (if ever) used at things like National Championships, the is no proscription in the rule against it.

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2 minutes ago, Schutzenmeister said:

 

There is no limitation in 8.6.1 (or elsewhere) that restricts warnings to only L1 Club matches ... While I agree they should become rarely (if ever) used at things like National Championships, the is no proscription in the rule against it.

I think there are several different schools of thought on warnings. I generally only give one warning to a new first time shooter. AND that is after his run. Other than that I don't recall ever giving a warning during a COF. I'm a stop kind of RO.

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2 hours ago, chad72 said:

We had this guy, that the ro kept yelling FINGER,  clearly the finger was on the trigger, while running, and reloading. 

The squad scored targets for the ro, I mostly never saw my hits.

Then I heard 1 stage was illegal 

 

 

10 minutes ago, Schutzenmeister said:

 

There is no limitation in 8.6.1 (or elsewhere) that restricts warnings to only L1 Club matches ... While I agree they should become rarely (if ever) used at things like National Championships, the is no proscription in the rule against it.


How many warnings is an R.O. supposed to give before they do their job and DQ the shooter?

This R.O. is not helping anyone (Including the shooter), what happens when this shooter does it again but falls and shoots someone?

I understand and agree with giving a shooter a break, but the R.O. did a disservice to the shooter and everyone this guy shoots with, he did not do anything to stop dangerous behavior.

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1 minute ago, Sarge said:

I think there are several different schools of thought on warnings. I generally only give one warning to a new first time shooter. AND that is after his run. Other than that I don't recall ever giving a warning during a COF. I'm a stop kind of RO.

 

Understood ... But let me give you an example - And this has happened to me MORE than once!

 

=>  Shooter finishes the stage, facing a target noticeably on his strong side. IFUSC ...

 

=>  Shooter unloads ... ICHDH

 

=>  Shooter starts to holster while turning uprange ... Worse - He misses the holster, but keeps turning while he tries to find the damned thing

 

=>  I yell "MUZZLE" - mostly because I DON"T want him to turn far enough to be facing me BEFORE he holsters the gun!

 

Most times, that works ... Once or twice it went too far and I had to yell STOP!  You should be able to figure out the rest!

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5 minutes ago, Schutzenmeister said:

 

Understood ... But let me give you an example - And this has happened to me MORE than once!

 

=>  Shooter finishes the stage, facing a target noticeably on his strong side. IFUSC ...

 

=>  Shooter unloads ... ICHDH

 

=>  Shooter starts to holster while turning uprange ... Worse - He misses the holster, but keeps turning while he tries to find the damned thing

 

=>  I yell "MUZZLE" - mostly because I DON"T want him to turn far enough to be facing me BEFORE he holsters the gun!

 

Most times, that works ... Once or twice it went too far and I had to yell STOP!  You should be able to figure out the rest!

Like I said. Different strokes......  he turns as mentioned, I call stop.

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5 minutes ago, bret said:

How many warnings is an R.O. supposed to give before they do their job and DQ the shooter?

This R.O. is not helping anyone (Including the shooter), what happens when this shooter does it again but falls and shoots someone?

I understand and agree with giving a shooter a break, but the R.O. did a disservice to the shooter and everyone this guy shoots with, he did not do anything to stop dangerous behavior.

 

Best Practices ...

 

=>  If the safety infraction has occurred, CALL IT!

 

=>  If it's a new shooter at a local match, and the infraction is close, but not quite ... WARN!  It gets them thinking about it in real time.

 

=>  The higher the level of match, or the more experienced the shooter, the less the RO should consider usint this tool.

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2 minutes ago, Schutzenmeister said:

 

Understood ... But let me give you an example - And this has happened to me MORE than once!

 

=>  Shooter finishes the stage, facing a target noticeably on his strong side. IFUSC ...

 

=>  Shooter unloads ... ICHDH

 

=>  Shooter starts to holster while turning uprange ... Worse - He misses the holster, but keeps turning while he tries to find the damned thing

 

=>  I yell "MUZZLE" - mostly because I DON"T want him to turn far enough to be facing me BEFORE he holsters the gun!

 

Most times, that works ... Once or twice it went too far and I had to yell STOP!  You should be able to figure out the rest!

I agree there, but running repeatedly with a finger in the trigger guard or after they broke 180, no I say STOP.

I have told a shooter to ULSC and when they racked the slide, they chambered another round, had to tell him repeatedly to show clear, even told him not to pull the trigger, then it looked like he was getting ready too, I said DO NOT PULL THAT F....... TRIGGER, SHOW ME CLEAR, he looked at me kind of pissed off, then racked the slide again, and when a round was ejected, all of a sudden I wasn't an ass.

Also told a shooter not to holster their loaded gun after they shot the COF while in the prone position, the RM said I wasn't supposed to do that, as it was not a range command, he said issue the range commands and if they break 180 or sweep someone, DQ them, believe it or not, that shooter complained to the RM that I wouldn't allow them to holster a loaded gun laying in the prone position, they were moving to another stage Hot that was in the same bay.

I told the RM I don't care what the rule was, in this case I am not letting a shooter holster a loaded gun and sweep the squad.

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37 minutes ago, Sarge said:

 I'm a stop kind of RO.

lol, who would have ever guessed?

 

(not that there is anything wrong with that, i appreciate your dedication to the rules, and hope to meet you someday.).

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10 minutes ago, motosapiens said:

lol, who would have ever guessed?

 

(not that there is anything wrong with that, i appreciate your dedication to the rules, and hope to meet you someday.).

:) maybe to rephrase, I'm not a warning kind of RO.

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Just now, Sarge said:

:) maybe to rephrase, I'm not a warning kind of RO.

I get it. I do give warnings, especially to newer shooters at locals that may not be aware they are getting close to the 180, or that their finger might still be near the trigger guard (very difficult call to be sure about in most situations). I tend not to give warnings to more experienced shooters because I know they don't want to be distracted.

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8 hours ago, Flatland Shooter said:

 

If the ROs are doing the scoring, while keeping the muzzle up on your PCC, you are permitted to follow and verify the hits.

 

Its not the job of the RO to tape targets and paint steel.  At best they can request the shooters do the work, but if they don't, then what?

 

Sounds like the squad was the problem, not the ROs.

 

Bill

Question is,, the ro stays stationary, while the squad, "competitors" yell out the hits to the score keeper. Ro doesn't in fact walk to each target and determine the hits.

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49 minutes ago, dvrdwn72 said:

Question is,, the ro stays stationary, while the squad, "competitors" yell out the hits to the score keeper. Ro doesn't in fact walk to each target and determine the hits.


The Competitors on your squad meaning more than one person is scoring your targets for the Range Officer in a Level II match?

Where were the other Range Officers?

Who was the RM and MD?

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1 hour ago, bret said:


The Competitors on your squad meaning more than one person is scoring your targets for the Range Officer in a Level II match?

Where were the other Range Officers?

Who was the RM and MD?

This sounds really bad. We don't even do this at locals generally

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Just now, Sarge said:

This sounds really bad. We don't even do this at locals generally

our club practice matches are run better than this level II match was.

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10 hours ago, Sarge said:

I think there are several different schools of thought on warnings. I generally only give one warning to a new first time shooter. AND that is after his run. Other than that I don't recall ever giving a warning during a COF. I'm a stop kind of RO.

 

The shooter owns the full 180 degrees, so if someone is hollering at him at level 2 match while he is within the 180, isn't that interference?

 

Seems like you either dq or allow the shooter to continue. 

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