18 vs 16 vs 14.5 JP-15

[Catch22]

Hello, long time lurker, first time caller.

 

After coming from competing in a Sporting Clays background, A friend asked me to shoot with him at our first 3 gun competition, in Altair Florida. Side note Altair, was a doozey but I fell in love with the sport.  I borrowed all sorts of equipment, and now its time to buy a rifle.  After seeing most people state, you can't beat a JP out of the Box, and most of our friends, buying a certain rifle then putting JP parts in it. I feel that this is the way I want to go.

 

I am no where near a shop that carries these fine products, so I have done as much research as I can, searched on here and scoured Google, Youtube, other forums, etc.  Most of the info for 3 gun rifles is from several years ago. Or about building a new 3 gun rifle.  SO I figured I would ask you guys, your thoughts and opinions.  This will be my first AR, so might as well do it right eh?

 

I spoke with two Distributer's out of state, and still awaiting a call back from JP Enterprises on the matter.    I am looking at a JP-15.

The General consensus from the two distributer's is for Bay stages go with the 14.5 pinned, over the 16". And for anything 50 to 200 yard double taps are way more manageable with the 18"  I do have to admit I am a bit nervous about the weight of a 18"  And have been trying to find the weight of the JP-15 in all of the sizes mentioned above.  I would like the rifle to be used for my wife and I, If I can convince her to make the shift as well. That is why I was told about the 14.5"  But the woman distributor spoke about even her want for a 18" as she likes her 14.5 pinned, but like the flatness that the 18" shot with.  The reason I am speaking of weight as well, is that after breaking my back and neck, the weight of my 9lb CG shotgun affects my back after a tournament of 100 clays.  But if the felt recoil is less, on the 18" then it might be better then going with a 14.5 pinned.   We shoot in Florida, and if I had more experience with the shoot's around here, maybe this would be an easier decision?

Overall, if anyone has the weight numbers from a site I couldn't find, or their own rifles, that would be great, and also if anyone has the would of, should of, could of's about their first rifle purchase, I would like to learn from you.  I like to "buy once, cry once".   I appreciate it, Thanks again.

[blacklab]

I don't know the weight of JP factory rifles but maybe I can give you some insight from my personal experience. When I first shot 3 gun it was with a off the shelf M4 carbine style rifle that weighed about 7lbs 6oz. After I had a few matches under my belt I built a dedicated rifle. Like you I did all kinds of research and thought a heavy rifle was the way to go and I went with a 18" barrel. The rifle came in at just under 10lbs. After a few matches I found out the rifle was just too heavy and went back to the drawing board. What I wound up with is a 16" barrel, low mass bolt, gutted buffer and m4-72 compensator. The rifle weighs 8lbs 4oz and is perfect for me, it works great for bay shooting and the 200 yard shots aren't a problem. Recoil with the low mass parts and compensator is extremely manageable and shooting splits is much faster. Of course every person is different and there is no one perfect fit, but if you stick with a good comp ( M4 or JP Titan) quality parts and a weight that is right for you you'll be fine.

[Catch22]

I Appreciate the reply.  I believe I am in agreeance with you.  That is what I really think is the major draw back of the 18"  and might be its Achilles heel for me. As I know that a heavy rifle or shotgun can not work for some people, and I am one of those people.  That's why I was curious of actually weight numbers for the JP rifles.  I would hate to spend the money and not like it and have to resell it to buy a different length rifle.  I haven't seen any in my area, or it might be an easier decision. I thought 16" would be the way to go, but the shops I spoke with stated, they liked there 14.5 pinned better then the 16", as it was quicker for transitioning.

[al503]

I'm not an AR expert (or even close) but the big advantage in going 18" is:

1. the rifle length gas system (shoots a little softer) 

2. more than adequate velocity without running too hot.  

3. the extra weight of the the bbl will help you stay on target a little better.  

 

I'm not sure but I'd be willing to bet that the 14.5" and the 16" use the same (my guess would be a mid length) gas system so you might as well go with the shorter one for transitions and faster handling.  

 

I have 2 18" light contour bbl JP-15's.  While they're expensive, they're definitely worth it and you won't regret it.  They weigh 6.9 lbs (bathroom scale) without an optic.  Forego the thermal dissipator and the rapid configuration hand guard is a titch lighter than the MK III.  JP has a titanium comp that wasn't available when I bought mine.  That should save an oz or two where it'll make the most difference in transitions.  You can always swap in a CF hand guard to lighten it up.  The 15.5" RC is about 14 oz.  I have a 15" CF that weighs around 6 oz.  8 oz in front of the receiver should be noticeable.  Hope that helps.    

 

 

[Catch22]

6 hours ago, al503 said:

"I have 2 18" light contour bbl JP-15's.  While they're expensive, they're definitely worth it and you won't regret it.  They weigh 6.9 lbs (bathroom scale) without an optic.  Forego the thermal dissipator and the rapid configuration hand guard is a titch lighter than the MK III.  JP has a titanium comp that wasn't available when I bought mine.  That should save an oz or two where it'll make the most difference in transitions.  You can always swap in a CF hand guard to lighten it up.  The 15.5" RC is about 14 oz.  I have a 15" CF that weighs around 6 oz.  8 oz in front of the receiver should be noticeable.  Hope that helps."

 

 

Apologize the ignorance, but the 18" light contour, is this the standard JP-15 setup in 18" .   Thank you for the weight numbers as this helps alot.  Also, are you stating that the 6.9 lbs is with the Thermal Dissipator and Rapid configuration installed?   Appreciate the help, and the comment about that I won't regret it, seems to be the general consensus. 

 

[copecowboy22]

If you like to tinker or play with things, stay away from the pinned 14.5. Changing out comps is a PITA on 14.5" barrels. I run an 18" on everything because I like one setup and don't practice enough to switch between two. Most of the club and major matches I shoot at go out to 600 yards. I've got a Larue 18" thats sub MOA and works great for me.

[StealthyBlagga]

Barrel length does not necessarily correlate with weight. You can have an AR15 built with any barrel thickness from a 1" bull barrel to a 0.625" pencil barrel, or even thinner in some cases. There are also variable profile barrels (e.g. fluted, government profile etc.). For a light-weight build I like the Faxon Gunner barrels. Most barrels are available in a variety of lengths.

 

You don't say what distances you expect to shoot, but - as you seem to want one rifle to do everything - I will assume your matches will be a mixture of <100 yard bay stages and 100-600 yard long-range stages. In such a case, you want enough barrel to get decent velocity (to shoot flat and knock down steel targets). I would NOT go shorter than 16" as velocity of .223 ammo really drops off below that length. I hear good things about the Stretch 16 barrel with intermediate gas as a soft-shooting short barrel.

 

Another consideration is accuracy. Most decent match barrels will shoot sub-MOA with good ammo when cold. Lighter barrels are prone to groups size opening up when they get hot. If you buy quality, this effect should be minimal, but will likely still be there.

 

Overall rifle weight will be affected by other factors too. Handguards can vary tremendously in weight, so choose a light one. The other component impacting overall weight is the optic - glass is heavy, so if you can live with less magnification and a smaller tube you will save a lot of weight. Resist the temptation to hang other crap off your rifle as the weight of this (often dead) weight can add up quickly.

 

How heavy the rifle feels can also be impacted by balance - a heavy stock (e.g. Magpul UBR) will make the front of the rifle feel lighter even if it is not.

 

If you want to buy a JP factory rifle, then you should call them and discuss your concerns. They also have a rifle builder app on their website that you could look at.

 

Edited May 4, 2017 by StealthyBlagga

[al503]

The 6.9 lbs was with the RC hand guard without the thermal dissipator. Not 100% sure that the light contour is the standard but that's the one you want. They make a medium contour as well. The medium might be good for shooting prone or off a bench, or for some heavy mag dumps but probably a little heavy for 3 gun, IMHO.  

[blacklab]

8 hours ago, StealthyBlagga said:

Barrel length does not necessarily correlate with weight. You can have an AR15 built with any barrel thickness from a 1" bull barrel to a 0.625" pencil barrel, or even thinner in some cases. There are also variable profile barrels (e.g. fluted, government profile etc.). For a light-weight build I like the Faxon Gunner barrels. Most barrels are available in a variety of lengths.

 

You don't say what distances you expect to shoot, but - as you seem to want one rifle to do everything - I will assume your matches will be a mixture of <100 yard bay stages and 100-600 yard long-range stages. In such a case, you want enough barrel to get decent velocity (to shoot flat and knock down steel targets). I would NOT go shorter than 16" as velocity of .223 ammo really drops off below that length. I hear good things about the Stretch 16 barrel with intermediate gas as a soft-shooting short barrel.

 

Another consideration is accuracy. Most decent match barrels will shoot sub-MOA with good ammo when cold. Lighter barrels are prone to groups size opening up when they get hot. If you buy quality, this effect should be minimal, but will likely still be there.

 

Overall rifle weight will be affected by other factors too. Handguards can vary tremendously in weight, so choose a light one. The other component impacting overall weight is the optic - glass is heavy, so if you can live with less magnification and a smaller tube you will save a lot of weight. Resist the temptation to hang other crap off your rifle as the weight of this (often dead) weight can add up quickly.

 

How heavy the rifle feels can also be impacted by balance - a heavy stock (e.g. Magpul UBR) will make the front of the rifle feel lighter even if it is not.

 

If you want to buy a JP factory rifle, then you should call them and discuss your concerns. They also have a rifle builder app on their website that you could look at.

 

Very well said.

[pjb45]

Just brought a JP PCC about a month ago.  It is my second full JP.  My third AR has JP everything but the upper and lower.

 

Could not be happier with JP products!  They were great.  Sometimes it is hard getting them on the phone.  Keep trying.

[CharlieD]

I would go with the light contour (not ultralight)14.5" with a pinned 3 port comp, and low mass bcg.  I'm shooting a 13.7" midlength SMOS barrel with JP 3 port comp, gas block, bcg, and scs, and this is the softest and flatest shooting gun I've had.  300 yds is no problem, haven't had the opportunity to shoot it further.

[Catch22]

13 hours ago, copecowboy22 said:

If you like to tinker or play with things, stay away from the pinned 14.5. Changing out comps is a PITA on 14.5" barrels. I run an 18" on everything because I like one setup and don't practice enough to switch between two. Most of the club and major matches I shoot at go out to 600 yards. I've got a Larue 18" thats sub MOA and works great for me.

 

This was where my apprehension came from on the 14.5 setup.  I mean, who doesn't want to be able to change that one day with out taking it to a gunsmith. The shoot I did, we only shot one stage between 125-600.  

 

 

3 hours ago, blacklab said:

Barrel length does not necessarily correlate with weight. You can have an AR15 built with any barrel thickness from a 1" bull barrel to a 0.625" pencil barrel, or even thinner in some cases. There are also variable profile barrels (e.g. fluted, government profile etc.). For a light-weight build I like the Faxon Gunner barrels. Most barrels are available in a variety of lengths.

 

Absolutely, I should of been more clear, the JP-15 "Ready Rifle" is the one I am considering in the lengths mentioned, and they all come with their "Light Contour" barrel configuration.  

 

3 hours ago, blacklab said:

You don't say what distances you expect to shoot, but - as you seem to want one rifle to do everything - I will assume your matches will be a mixture of <100 yard bay stages and 100-600 yard long-range stages. In such a case, you want enough barrel to get decent velocity (to shoot flat and knock down steel targets). I would NOT go shorter than 16" as velocity of .223 ammo really drops off below that length. I hear good things about the Stretch 16 barrel with intermediate gas as a soft-shooting short barrel.

 

 

I wish I knew what distances in the future I would be shooting.  If anyone in the South East Region, or Florida/Georgia area might chime in, then maybe I would get a better understanding of the distances I would be needing the rifle exclusively for.  There is a Barrel UM Tactical is bringing out that might be changing things in the future. It's called R.A.G.E. INTEGRATED BARRELS.  I had a chance to shoot one and the integrated break with adjustable bushings/baffles was really nice and worked excellently.  I have heard some great things about the Stretch 16 barrels, and they seem to be working great for a couple of shooters I follow.

 

3 hours ago, blacklab said:

Overall rifle weight will be affected by other factors too. Handguards can vary tremendously in weight, so choose a light one. The other component impacting overall weight is the optic - glass is heavy, so if you can live with less magnification and a smaller tube you will save a lot of weight. Resist the temptation to hang other crap off your rifle as the weight of this (often dead) weight can add up quickly.

 

I was going to run just the handguard with no attachments, and like Al503 stated above, if need be switch, to a carbon fiber one.  A for the glass I think for the time being I will go with a the lighter Vortex 1-6 that runs I think about 16  ounces vs the nicer Viper which runs almost 25.2 Ounces. 

 

3 hours ago, blacklab said:

How heavy the rifle feels can also be impacted by balance - a heavy stock (e.g. Magpul UBR) will make the front of the rifle feel lighter even if it is not.

 

If you want to buy a JP factory rifle, then you should call them and discuss your concerns. They also have a rifle builder app on their website that you could look at.

 

Indeed, when I fit people for shotgun's and they do not have the ability to swing the longer barrels since they aren't use to the gun. I add weight in the stock and it make the barrels more "whippy" then.  

 

I actually got through to JP Enterprises today. It did take a little time, but they were most helpful today.  I have built some rifles with it but for some reason the overall weight wasn't showing up. 

 

3 hours ago, pjb45 said:

 

Just brought a JP PCC about a month ago.  It is my second full JP.  My third AR has JP everything but the upper and lower.

 

Could not be happier with JP products!  They were great.  Sometimes it is hard getting them on the phone.  Keep trying.

 

That is what every one else has been saying about JP!  And you were correct a bit tough to get them on the phone, but they made up for that in the time they took with me today. 

 

[pjb45]

Glad to hear about your experience with JP.  I did not mention I have 1 of 10 of their 10 Anniversary RM3G rifles. 

 

My two 223 all print less than 1/2 MOA.  My PCC does one hole at pistol distances.  I get extreme accuracy and reliability in the same package.

 

 

[Catch22]

On 5/5/2017 at 5:31 PM, pjb45 said:

Glad to hear about your experience with JP.  I did not mention I have 1 of 10 of their 10 Anniversary RM3G rifles. 

 

My two 223 all print less than 1/2 MOA.  My PCC does one hole at pistol distances.  I get extreme accuracy and reliability in the same package.

Which length .223 JP's do you like to run pjb45? 

[pjb45]

I have an 18 inch medium for our longer range matches with a Swaro 1.7-10x

I have a 16 inch light for our shorter matches with a 1-6x on it.

 

[Noisefight]

I have one of the 1st gen barrels that came cerekoted. I've tried 3 gas blocks that were to spec and none of them fit. I'm at the point of selling the damn thing. Any suggestions would help. 

[MHitchcock]

I have a 18 inch light contour SCR-11 and a GMR-15 set up identically but with a 16 inch barrel. I think it balances perfectly and is insanely accurate for an AR. It comes down to what you want the rifle to do. If you want to shoot true long distance 3 gun stages or want to go play at an 800yd range, go for the 18 inch. If you will only be shooting hoser bay stages, get the 14.5. I wanted something that would do both very well. Originally when I got the SCR I thought I would eventually buy a 14.5 upper for short range matchs, but I am just going to use the GMR for that. In any event, I can tell you that the 18 inch is the last thing holding me back from better times/performance.

 

[Kirkwoodious]

If you get the JP 15 with a 16" barrel you will never regret it or need to buy another match rifle.

 

Is a 14.5" barrel better in bays, probably not but maybe on the most narrow of margins.

Is a 18" barrel better for long range, in the wind yes a little bit.

 

If you buy the 14.5 or the 18 the weaknesses in the opposite discipline will be more noticeable - but again still wouldn't prevent you from being VERY competitive.

[Hi-Power Jack]

Not sure where you shoot, but at Central Florida R&P (near the Orlando Airport),

the Max range is 300 meters (330 yards).

 

I'm thinking of getting a 16" since they seem to be very accurate at 300 meters    

[DocMedic]

Lets see, I own 3 20 inchers which one is a JP, 3 18 inchers two are JP's and 3rd is 80% JP, and Wife owns a full 16in JP, and I built a 14.5inch "duty" JP rifle.

 

The only time I run the 14.5 inch barrel are for those matches that say "No competition guns allowed." it zeroed at 300 yards and have hit 400-500 yard targets in practice with no issue.

 

My wife's 16inch JP-15 Is actually pretty awesome, light and doesn't recoil to harshly. She's used it for 6 years at RM3G with no issue, you will need to run heavier bullets though for the farther targets to get a harder hit on steel, but 55's are super accurate out of the gun even out to those ranges.

 

The 18er's are my goto 3gun rifle, I just burnt up a barrel on my main gun and its now my dedicated bay burner / local match gun. I just recently built a duplicate of my main rifle with updated JP parts (new comp) and a little lighter hand guard Samson MX vs Samson EVO. the 3rd 18" gun has a scope sitting on top of it if I ever decide to go shoot Tac ops or Open again. At 25 yards, I can double tap the headbox on a full ipsc with no issue, and the 2 18" JP guns are as light as my wife's 16inch JP rifle, the 3rd weighing a little more due to scope.

 

Two of the 20" inchers have true irons, one setup for NRA High-power, and the other more old-school 3gun style setup with front sight pushed out to the muzzle break (JP), the 3rd is a team rifle build that I will use for precision rifle team matches. the Jp is about as light as I can get her, and she weighs as much as one my 18" guns, the only issue I would have with it if selecting a match to shoot with it is the side to side swing. The extra 2inches out in front does slow the rifle down enough were it will matter on those style of stages.

 

If your looking for best "all-around" rifle and your matches consist mostly bay shoots I would run a 16" barrel. If you want that "all-around" feeling but do mostly field style matches I would recommend the 18inch and the reason I would suggest that is lower recoil impulse so its easier to stay on target also make faster makeup shots incase you miss longer steel and the extra velocity helps. The 14.5 inch guns is OK.. but even for the bay matches I've shot you have plenty of room to swing a gun on the stage, the length of the barrel doesn't matter until you run into stages with tight wall shots like we are now seeing in USPSA with PCC, which right now I have a form1 on a AR-15 lower now due to that reason.

 

This is just my two cents.

Edited May 24, 2017 by DocMedic

[Steve RA]

I'd recommend an 18" for the longer gas system, slightly greater velocity.  If light weight is desired then get a lightweight barrel.  Use a carbon fiber fore end and that will save more weight than a difference in barrel length (assuming all the lengths are same configuration).

[1911addict42]

Hi gents,

 

Been looking for a JP-15 and came across this board. Wondering if the OP has some feedback on the JP.

also thought he may be interested in the V Seven Weapons AR platforms... super light, accurate and rugged 

[Frankly]

No point of getting an 18" and planning to shoot longer ranges unless you get some decent glass too. Vortex Viper 1-6 or something in that range, not a Strike Beagle or cheapo scope because you spent it all on the rifle. 

 

You know the saying that the scope should be as expensive as the rifle? Well not quite but close....

 

Also you can do things like build with some Aero Precision parts and strategically add JP parts in order to hit your budget. Get a good barrel and trigger, the rest is all important too but there are plenty of solid, high quality, USA-made parts that are as good or even better than JP at competitive prices. 

Edited August 13, 2020 by Frankly

[FlyFishermanUGA]

Catch - I shoot at central and Southwest Florida matches and have shot at Altair before. That’s probably the only range where you are going 400+ unless you are shooting at USA in Frostproof where it’s common to get out there. Manatee my local range is mostly a 300 yard range but we can go out farther. If you plan on shooting majors I would recommend a 18 but for locals and some long range you can get by with a 16 inch. I have a JP-15 with the 18 inch and it’s a very nice rifle. Put a LPVO on it and you can go out to 600 easy. I have a couple other rifles from DD a 16 and 18 and the 16 is fun to shoot in bays but after 500 yards and cold temps I’m always wanting a 18. 

[PacMan]

Us old school guys have been shooting 20" JPs and have not found much 'disadvantages' shooting in "barrel burning stages" in square bays.  However, I understand the question is between 14.5 - 16 and 18. To that end, I have them all with a mixed bag of carbine/mid length/rifle length gas systems and the softest/most accurate shooting stick is still the old JP CTR-02 20", to me that's most important.  Second from that is the self-assembled 18" rifle length gas BA heavy fluted barrel. Third down is a micro MOA rifle length gas 16" heavy fluted.  All of them are capable of moa performance with 55 gr Blitzking load.

Edited November 11, 2020 by PacMan