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Feeding Problem


Andis2068

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Recently, I purchased a Glock 24 and a Glock 35 to shoot limited in USPSA.  The G24 came with the original barrel and a KKM barrel, and I've used both in practice.  Since I previously competed with a 2011, I had to work up a shorter load for the Glocks.  I've wanted to do this for a while anyway because the agency I work for issues 40 S&W Glocks.  I'm using 200gr round nosed flat point Blue Bullets with an OAL of 1.125.  I went with 1.125 OAL because that was what some Speer Lawman training ammo that I'd been issued measured.  Both guns have had a ton of failures to feed.  Mostly the bullets nose dive into the ramp, but sometime the slide didn't even pick up a new round.  Both guns were well used so I replaced the magazine springs and recoil springs, but bullets were still getting stuck on the feed ramps.  Most of the mags I purchased with the guns were early generations so I bought all new mags, but the bullets are still getting stuck on the feed ramp.  Now I'm going to try increasing the OAL to 1.135, but I'm wondering if the round nosed flat point profile of the bullets may be the problem?  It seems that more manufacturers use a truncated cone profile for 40 S&W.  Do truncated cone profile bullets feed more reliably than round nosed flat point bullets in 40 caliber Glocks?  Has anyone else ever run into this issue and how did you solve it?

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I know this isn't much of a consolation, but I've never seen round nosed bullets in .40S&W.  I've only seen either HP or TC bullets.  So, that may be your issue.  Then again, I haven't shot 200gr bullets either.  I've only shot up to 180gr TC or HP bullets.  

 

My first indication was going to be the magazine springs, but you already said you took care of that with new mag internals and then new mags.  So, that takes care of that.  Only other thing I can think of is if the feed ramp isn't clean or has some sort of burr or issue with it.  Otherwise, it may be possible the round nose is catching on the very bottom of the feed ramp and nose diving when the mag spring tries to push the rest of the case up.

 

Have you tried any TC rounds in the exact same mags/firearm and if so what was the result of shooting those?  If you have no feeding issues with TC rounds in the exact same setup without changing a thing, I would say it is the bullet profile.

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The malfunction occur with all three barrels I have for the two guns and the feed ramps are smooth.  I have a few 200gr Black Bullet TCs so I'm going to load some of those at 1.125 and 1.135 OAL and see what happens.  Blue Bullets are extremely popular with Production shooters that use Glocks so I find it hard to believe they would sell 40 caliber bullets that barely function in Limited guns.  When I shot Limited with a 2011, I was advised to load long cartridges to avoid these type of malfunctions and to increase accuracy.  I chose this load because it made major.  But when I zeroed the guns, the G35's groups were about six inches wide and the G24 had about four inch groups at 25yds.  

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19 hours ago, Andis2068 said:

   I went with 1.125 OAL because that was what some Speer Lawman training ammo that I'd been issued measured. 

 

You really can't determine OAL by some ammo you've seen before ...

 

You want to use the bullet you'll be reloading (BB 200 gr TC's) and

 

run    The Plunk Test.

 

Find The Longest you can reload and have the rounds not jam into the

rifling - then back off a little, and use that as your OAL.

 

You're probably loading them too short.    :) 

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I would load some dummy rounds at different OAL and feed them by hand.  You might need to go a little shorter.

 

 

If you are shooting major power factor with 200gr bullets in a glock at 1.125 OAL you might be playing with fire depending what powder you are using.  

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you said sometimes the round isn't being picked up by the slide.

that usually means the slide isn't going all the way back.

You might try a lighter recoil spring so the slide goes all the way back, giving the magazine spring time to push the round all the way up.

 

Does the gun hand cycle rounds that you've loaded.  the above info is based on when the gun is being live fired.  If your rounds hand cycle the above may be the problem or at least part of it.  Most glocks I've been around are fairly tolerant of bullet shape.

 

As others have said. load as long as your mags and chamber will allow you to.

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23 hours ago, darkvibe said:

I would load some dummy rounds at different OAL and feed them by hand.  You might need to go a little shorter.

 

 

If you are shooting major power factor with 200gr bullets in a glock at 1.125 OAL you might be playing with fire depending what powder you are using.  

 

I did do the plunk tests with dummys of both the 200gr TC BBI and 200gr RNFP BB because I didn't want to waste the powder.  I got kind of surprising results out of it and learned something new.  Both bullets passed the plunk tests in all three barrels, at 1.150 OAL, but the Glock magazines seem to be the main limiting factor.  The dummy got stuck in the mags at different OALs.  ETS mags accepted bullets loaded a few thousands longer than than the Glock mags did.  In the end, I was able to load the Blue Bullets to 1.135 OAL and the Black Bullets to 1.150 OAL.  At those lengths, they all fed and ejected by hand from the Glocks, but so did the shorter 1.125 OAL Blue Bullets.  The real test will be Monday, when I get to the range.  I also noticed that my Dillon 650 and Dillon dies produce I would call a pretty high standard deviation in OAL.  Some rounds come out up to eight thousands longer than I set the seating die for so I purchased a Redding seating die with a micrometer and Whidden Gunworks machined toolhead to tighten up the tolerances.

 

To your other point, the powder I'm using is VV N320.  I've fired about 700 rounds of the original 1.125 OAL load and haven't seen any overpressure signs.

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I made it to the range yesterday with the two previously mentioned 200gr TC BBI and 200gr RNFP BB loads plus a third load using the 200gr BB and my new Redding Competition die set.  I fired about 100 rounds for each load and had over 30 failures to feed.  Most of those occurred while firing the Blue Bullet loads, although the Black Bullets malfunctioned in the same way.  I've only got two practice days left before my next match and I fell as though these malfunctions are too distracting during practice.  The previous owner of one of the Glocks reported similar issues with it, so I'm certain this isn't unheard of.  I started shooting Limited with an STI Edge that reliably fed everything from the Speer and Winchester ammo I was issued at work all the way out to 1.200 hand loads.  I'm going to switch back to the Edge until I can figure out how to make the Glocks run reliably...  

 

If anybody is loading major power factor 40 S&W for competition use with a Glock and has any insight, I 'd love to hear from you.  I'm still getting a lot of OAL variation, even with the Redding dies.  The ram is going all the way up and the dies are locked in tight.  I believe that I'm pulling the press handle as consistently as possible, so I'm not sure what the issue is.

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Andis- I tested some BBI and Bayou 180's today, both loaded with 4.5gr of N320 and seated to OAL of 1.14, from by Glock G35.  No issues/failures with the BBIs, however I did have a few 'failure to feed' (less than 2 out of 50) with the Bayou bullets.  I examined the profiles of the two bullets and it seems there are small differences.  I'm going to try loading a bit shorter (with the Bayou bullets) next time, to see if this fixes the issue. 

 

BTW, both bullets had comparable velocity and accuracy.

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  • 3 months later...

I had the same problem with my g35.  I had to load the blue bullets long for glock. I loaded at OAL of 1.155. Be careful not to load too long because they will start to hang up in the magazine. The ogive was different and the case was hitting the feed ramp on the barrel. 

 

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I know this isn't much of a consolation, but I've never seen round nosed bullets in .40S&W.  I've only seen either HP or TC bullets.  So, that may be your issue.  Then again, I haven't shot 200gr bullets either.  I've only shot up to 180gr TC or HP bullets.  
 
My first indication was going to be the magazine springs, but you already said you took care of that with new mag internals and then new mags.  So, that takes care of that.  Only other thing I can think of is if the feed ramp isn't clean or has some sort of burr or issue with it.  Otherwise, it may be possible the round nose is catching on the very bottom of the feed ramp and nose diving when the mag spring tries to push the rest of the case up.
 
Have you tried any TC rounds in the exact same mags/firearm and if so what was the result of shooting those?  If you have no feeding issues with TC rounds in the exact same setup without changing a thing, I would say it is the bullet profile.

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They exist.
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