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Mag Holder Orientation


streckjc

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Hey everyone,

 

I am in the process of setting up my belt with my holster and magazine holders, and have a question for everyone.

 

I'm going to be running in the Production division, so I have limits to where my magazine holders can be located. I found that having my holders angled slightly forward helps with quicker reloads. Does anyone else have their production setup with angled magazine holders, whether it's forward or backward?

 

Thanks for reading and future comments.

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Production rules are behind the hip bones.  Angle doesn't matter.  

 

I run mine at an angle too, I didn't do well with the straight up mag holders.  Found I had to lean away and wasted the extra movement and lost consistency trying to index to the same grip on the magazine.  CRSpeed mag holsters are my preference.

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I run five mag pouches starting at the point of my hip running back. First pouch is a Safariland 771, the other four are Safariland 773's. All my pouches are vertical. This allows me to bring the first mag pouch as far forward as possible and still reach my rearmost pouch. I find that angling the pouches doesn't allow my reloading hand to stay at the same angle when I reach for a magazine. That slows me down.

 

Jim

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17 hours ago, IronicTwitch said:

Production rules are behind the hip bones.  Angle doesn't matter.  

 

I run mine at an angle too, I didn't do well with the straight up mag holders.  Found I had to lean away and wasted the extra movement and lost consistency trying to index to the same grip on the magazine.  CRSpeed mag holsters are my preference.

 

Do the pouches have to be behind the hip bones, or does the top most part of the magazine (at a forward angle) have to be behind the hip bones? That isn't clear in the rule book. I'm hoping it's where the base of the mag holder is on the belt, but I can't tell for sure.

I'm using the Ghost360's, and will have 5 on the belt.

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38 minutes ago, streckjc said:

 

Do the pouches have to be behind the hip bones, or does the top most part of the magazine (at a forward angle) have to be behind the hip bones? That isn't clear in the rule book. I'm hoping it's where the base of the mag holder is on the belt, but I can't tell for sure.

I'm using the Ghost360's, and will have 5 on the belt.

It is very clear:

 

D4-12

Restriction on position of holster and other equipment
(revolver speed loaders, moon clips are exempt)

Yes, see Appendix E3

 

Everything has to be behind the hip bone.

 

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Front to back for me, shorter reach to the front one


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Front to back would be logical choice now that I think about it. There will be stages where you won't go through all your mags so it makes sense to start with the closest reach and work your way around to the back.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

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Chuck, to me that still leaves room for interpretation. Meaning, yes the mag holder is behind the hip bone as shown in E3, but that shows a vertical holder and mag. My question is can the top of the mag as it sits in the holder lean in front of the hip bone if using a forward can't for the holder? Or does absolutely everything, regardless of being attached to the belt have to be behind the hip bone?

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1 minute ago, streckjc said:

Chuck, to me that still leaves room for interpretation. Meaning, yes the mag holder is behind the hip bone as shown in E3, but that shows a vertical holder and mag. My question is can the top of the mag as it sits in the holder lean in front of the hip bone if using a forward can't for the holder? Or does absolutely everything, regardless of being attached to the belt have to be behind the hip bone?

Equipment has to be behind the hipbone...

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19 minutes ago, Youngeyes said:

This^^^

Listen to this...it is experience talking....Also, if your equipment has a tendency to move around on your belt, adding some velcro to the back side of the holders so they can grip the belt is not a bad idea.

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This is going to drive me nuts because when I was a LEO, I used to hate having my mags vertical because I felt it was much harder to facilitate a mag change versus having my mags horizontal, so I could pull them out with my left hand (I'm a right handed shooter) to the left and already have them going up and the correct way into the magwell as the spent mag was dropping to the ground.  I got very fast and very good at this without even having to look at anything.  To me, doing it vertical was awkward because no matter how I put the mag in the pouch/holder, I felt I had to turn the mag or my hand a weird way to grip it right to put it into the firearm.

 

So, my point is, if I was only carrying two mags for this type of thing, I would do them horizontally, however, since we normally have to carry like 5 mags, you almost can't do it horizontally (even though I'm a big...okay, fat. LOL guy) because they would be too far behind.  So, I'm stuck doing it vertically. :(  Looks like I'm going to have to be doing a LOT of practicing to try and facilitate these mag changes.  This is the only thing I'm not looking forward to and I have a feeling I'm going to be dropping a lot of mags and that is going to suck.

 

Anyway, to the OP, I'm new to the sport and bought Ghost 360 (4 of them) mag holders and will hold them vertical.  I don't know if I will end up eventually going to Production Div or not, but I'm starting out in Limited, so my understanding is in Limited I can put the mag holders wherever (I'm going to double check the rule book on this just to be absolutely sure), but my understanding from the rulebook (and posts above) in Production, everything has to be behind the hip bone, so not just the mag holder, but the mag itself as well, so if you cant your mags forward, the top of the mag will have to be behind the hip bone, which means the mag holder itself will have to be even further behind the hip bone.

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Ok, so I did a dry fit of my belt, holster and 5 mag holders. I did put my gun in the holster and 5 mags in the holders to actually see everything on. I believe I've found the location on the belt that allows my holders to have a single notch angle forward and still have the butt of the mag behind the hip bones. I've probably got room to spare behind the hip bones, but I'd rather be safe than sorry.

 

I did a quick 5 mag reload and found that it wasn't too bad, although if I ever need that 5th mag it'll be a bit of a reach not not horrible.

 

I will definitely be adding Velcro the the back of each mag holder and my holster to help keep things securely in place. The only concern I'll be facing there is the 2" requirement for the belt-to-gun distance (Appendix D4-10). I'm right at 2" now and the Velcro may make it more. I may need to swap out the factory Comp-Tac drop holster and try the Springer drop holster mount I have instead. The last thing I want is to get DQ'd for something simple like that.

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2 minutes ago, streckjc said:

Ok, so I did a dry fit of my belt, holster and 5 mag holders. I did put my gun in the holster and 5 mags in the holders to actually see everything on. I believe I've found the location on the belt that allows my holders to have a single notch angle forward and still have the butt of the mag behind the hip bones. I've probably got room to spare behind the hip bones, but I'd rather be safe than sorry.

 

I did a quick 5 mag reload and found that it wasn't too bad, although if I ever need that 5th mag it'll be a bit of a reach not not horrible.

 

I will definitely be adding Velcro the the back of each mag holder and my holster to help keep things securely in place. The only concern I'll be facing there is the 2" requirement for the belt-to-gun distance (Appendix D4-10). I'm right at 2" now and the Velcro may make it more. I may need to swap out the factory Comp-Tac drop holster and try the Springer drop holster mount I have instead. The last thing I want is to get DQ'd for something simple like that.

Here's a tip for not having to reach so far for your 5th mag. At Make Ready, use that 5th mag to load the gun...so, if you ever need the 5th mag, it's actually only the 4th mag on your belt.

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21 minutes ago, GrumpyOne said:

Here's a tip for not having to reach so far for your 5th mag. At Make Ready, use that 5th mag to load the gun...so, if you ever need the 5th mag, it's actually only the 4th mag on your belt.

 

When you go to the line or box or whatever it is (sorry, I don't mean that rudely) to get ready and wait for the RO to say "Make Ready", do ALL of your mags have to be in a pouch? (even in Limited Div)  I only bought four mag holders, but I was planning on having/using five mags.  I figured the first one I would be holding or having in my front pocket or what not because that would be the first one that would be going in my firearm when I started out and the four on my belt were extras for reloads when needed.  

 

However, if they ALL have to be in a mag pouch on your belt when "Make Ready" is given, then I'm screwed and have to go buy another darn pouch just for that mag.  I'm glad I read this.  Crap.  LOL!

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To my knowledge Demon, you can have your starting mag in a pocket with 11 rounds since you chamber 1 at the make ready. The rules also allow you to have them in pockets, as long as that doesn't violate the hip bone location. It just makes things slower to grab one. But if there's a stage that requires like 60 rounds or something, you can certainly have them in your pockets.

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The applicable rule...5.2.4 During the course of fire, after the start signal, unless stipulated otherwise in the stage procedure, spare ammunition, magazines and/or speed loading devices shall be carried in retention devices attached to the competitor's belt and specifically designed for that purpose. Unless specifically prohibited in the Written Stage Briefing, a competitor may also carry additional magazines or speed loading devices in apparel pocket(s) and retrieve and use them, providing that the location of the apparel pocket does not violate the requirements of Appendix D, Item 12 (subject to the provisions of Rule 6.2.5.1).

 

Should the division restrict the location of the magazines or speed loading devices, carrying them in apparel pocket(s) forward of the restriction point will be allowed providing they are not removed from the apparel pocket(s) between the “standby” command and the command “ if clear, hammer down and holster”. (e.g. – a magazine may be retrieved from a front pocket to facilitate loading before the start signal or while unloading at the end of a COF without penalty). When stipulations in the WSB require placement of magazines or speed loaders on a table or similar location and not in the retention devices prior to the start signal, retrieving them and using them from the hand is allowed. Further, spare ammunition, magazines and/or speed loading devices carried in the hand after the start signal are not subject to the equipment position restrictions of Appendix D, Item 12, as long as they remain in the hand.

 

 

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To further muddy the waters...From the Production rules...

 

20
Holster and magazine holder restrictions
•Suitable for everyday use. “Race gun” type holster prohibited.
•May not be manufactured or cut lower than, and must cover the slide up to, 1/2” below the ejection port (belt slide “Yaqui” type holster exempt).
•Revolver holsters open no lower than halfway down the cylinder.
•The drop offset type holster is allowed in production Division as long as the heel of the butt of the gun is above the belt per 5.2.7.2 and the rest of the criteria are met.
Each magazine must be contained individually within the magazine pouch. Magazines may not be retained through magnetic means.

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5 hours ago, ChuckS said:

It is very clear:

 

D4-12

Restriction on position of holster and other equipment
(revolver speed loaders, moon clips are exempt)

Yes, see Appendix E3

 

Everything has to be behind the hip bone.

 

I pointed this out to the OP a while back. Very clear to me too. :)

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Sorry guys, but from my experience what's clear to one may not be clear to another. I still think the rule should be explained in more detail in the book. But for now I know what to do.

Thanks.

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Single stack (same rear of hipbone rule). Running three single pouches and one double. All vertical and bullets forward. May switch to 6 singles bullets out, but not in a hurry to buy more stuff.

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