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Apex production setup


DementedAntics

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I have read previous threads about the FSS trigger in aluminum not being factory legal bc of the flat face and material difference. My question is now that they have a polymer version that's contoured the same  as stock m&p would that trigger shoe/face be legal?

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I have been told the FSS internals will work with the stock trigger/trigger bar assembly, but have never tried it myself (I am not interested in shooting Production). Hopefully someone else will confirm.

Edited by StealthyBlagga
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Yes, the FSS kit will work with the stock trigger shoe but you will have a good bit of over travel (1/4 inch or so)

 If you are planning on shooting production I recommend the competition kit. Comes with sear, springs and plunger and works great with the stock trigger shoe. 

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Clint has it right, in that if you want to stay production legal you want the comp kit.  I have shot several of these and the over travel varies, mine for example is very minimal.  There is a video on YouTube where they show how to adjust the over travel, the procedure worked for me. What is consistent with everyone I know who has one is that you will have the occasional dead trigger failure.  You can mess about with the trigger bar per their instructions and it gets better but never completely goes away.  It's worth it for the better trigger imo, but don't fool yourself about reliability.  Once you do this your gun is competition only from that point forward, and you will have an occasional bad stage until you get fast at clearing it.  As long as you are ok with this it Is a substantial improvement on the stock trigger pull.

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What causes the dead trigger failure? I was curious so I installed an FSS kit with the stock trigger but have had too many instances of "dead trigger" for this to be viable.

 

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15 hours ago, ddc said:

What causes the dead trigger failure? I was curious so I installed an FSS kit with the stock trigger but have had too many instances of "dead trigger" for this to be viable.

 

 

Which is probably why Apex says that the forward set sear will not work with the stock trigger.

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Referring to the comp kit, I've heard a lot of different theories about it and a lot of different "fixes".  Some say its the stock trigger, some that it's "sear flutter", some that it goes away if you replace the trigger bar.  Many will say that you're not letting the trigger reset, or you're limp writsting.  Could be any of these, but in my case it never did it once in several thousand rounds and then did it every other match or so thereafter.  No changes in technique or ammo, just the kit.  So I don't think it's unreasonable to surmise that these things are connected, especially when Google will reveal many others with the same problem.  

Again, I'm not saying that it's bad enough to not be worth it, just that it's not safe for defensive use and you should know about it going in.  I'm not sorry that I did it, I would have for sure sold the gun by now if the apex trigger wasn't available.  The stock trigger was that bad and it's great that you can do something about it.

All the above said, consider that by the time you buy the trigger kit and the barrel you're getting into the area where you could buy  a decent gun made out of metal that you don't have to buy a bunch of janky aftermarket parts for to get working right.  I know I've learned my lesson ?.

 

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 4/25/2017 at 11:11 PM, jeffm_norcal said:

Clint has it right, in that if you want to stay production legal you want the comp kit.  I have shot several of these and the over travel varies, mine for example is very minimal.  There is a video on YouTube where they show how to adjust the over travel, the procedure worked for me. What is consistent with everyone I know who has one is that you will have the occasional dead trigger failure.  You can mess about with the trigger bar per their instructions and it gets better but never completely goes away.  It's worth it for the better trigger imo, but don't fool yourself about reliability.  Once you do this your gun is competition only from that point forward, and you will have an occasional bad stage until you get fast at clearing it.  As long as you are ok with this it Is a substantial improvement on the stock trigger pull.

 

You need to fix your gun.

 

I can promise you that mine hasn't had a dead trigger since I properly tuned the trigger/trigger bar loop in 2010. That mean 100% mechanical reliability of the firing mechanism for at least 20,000 rounds. It's as boringly reliable as a completely stock 9mm Glock, and it still has the early style small-spring sear housing that's supposed to be horrible about such things.

 

A gun equipped with the APEX CAEK should not be expected have dead triggers, just because you know, that's how it is.

 

Edited by MemphisMechanic
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I get what you're saying, and I believe that you had that experience.  But you are also quoting a sample size of one.  I think, given the variation in factory tolerances, that some will and do have a reliable outcome.  Some will not.  As far as fixing my gun goes I worked on it a lot, then had two highly rated actual gunsmiths work on it.  Still it persists.  I know others who have had similar experiences and some where it worked.  All I'm saying is that there is risk involved, as there will be any time you modify your gun with any product not just Apex ones.  

 

 

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Interesting. I'd have gone back to factory parts one by one before now to find the culprit - there's no way I'd tolerate a gun that had intermittent malfunctions every 100-500 rounds.

 

Locally at one point we had six M&P shooters, several of whom were running my installation of their Apex parts. The only one who had long term headaches like that? Sold the gun rather than troubleshoot it. Everyone else had some form of aftermarket trigger and Glocklike reliablitiy.

 

Edited by MemphisMechanic
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I had the dead trigger thing on mine on the second day after I bought it.

 

Didn't really understand the set up but I bought an APEX CAEK kit for it and installed it and it was wonderful, for about a year.  Then back into the dead trigger thing as well as light strikes.

 

I bought a stronger (Glock) striker spring and installed it for the light strikes but it didn't help.  What fixed that was getting the trigger bar adjusted to get the striker safety full lifted out of the way before the sear released the striker.

 

What fixed the dead trigger issue was stoning the sear to a sharp flat surface, like the factory sear.  I also had a .357 SIG FS M&P and saw that the rear corner of the sear was very sharp vs. the APEX sear.  I had already replaced the sear spring and that didn't help so took the APEX sear out and stoned the rear corner nice and sharp and put 400 rounds through it with no issues.  Prior to that I was having two or three dead triggers/light strikes per magazine.  That 400 rounds occurred over three range sessions and I'd look at the sear while cleaning the gun and that rear corner stayed nice and sharp.

 

I don't shoot the M&Ps anymore though.  While fighting with the M&P I bought a CZ P07 and found it was not only more reliable it was way more accurate.  Been buying CZ's ever since.

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My thoughts exactly M1.  As Memphis points out it is possible to get M&Ps running right, but with all the time and expense involved it's hard to see why you would bother unless part of your enjoyment of the hobby includes a lot of fiddling with your gun.  So perhaps it's worth it if like Memphis you have a lot of experience putting these in and tuning them or are lucky like Demented.  If you are coming to it from stock like the OP, maybe thinking twice before going down this road will save a lot of frustration.  Just sayin....YMMV.

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21 hours ago, jeffm_norcal said:

.  So perhaps it's worth it if like Memphis you have a lot of experience putting these in and tuning them or are lucky like Demented.  If you are coming to it from stock like the OP, maybe thinking twice before going down this road...

 

I've been shooting a Tanfoglio for that last six months. The M&P is collecting dust.

 

If anyone's buddy wants a 100% reliable two tone cerakoted M&P with an insanely good trigger for a good price? Have them PM me. :D

 

(I joke, but I probably will sell it eventually...)

 

That's how attached I am to the S&W platform. 

 

Edited by MemphisMechanic
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  • 3 weeks later...

The apex FSS kit will definatley work with the stock trigger shoe. I used that set up for a while. Until I realized how nice the stock performance center sear can be with a little work. My preferred set up is the all the PC parts with minor work done to them & the Apex competition spring kit. Lighter, better break and reset, and production legal

Edited by kgorbo
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