d_striker Posted April 22, 2017 Share Posted April 22, 2017 1 hour ago, ChemistShooter said: No, no trigger job. Hmm, I did take the trigger out to clean it and put it back together. But I didn't take the trigger apart, just took the parts out and cleaned them. The trigger was feeling flaky. It was a lot better after I got all the carbon off. I sonicated the slide in ethanol. I pulled a ton of crud out of the slide, and that was after a regular cleaning. It was still turning dark after an hour and three solvent changes. Might have been crud in the striker channel. What is your primer depth? Especially on the ones you have that wouldn't go bang. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChemistShooter Posted April 22, 2017 Author Share Posted April 22, 2017 56 minutes ago, d_striker said: What is your primer depth? Especially on the ones you have that wouldn't go bang. I don't know. My Radio Shack calipers are not up to this particular task. All I can say for certain is the primers are below flush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeerBaron Posted April 22, 2017 Share Posted April 22, 2017 If you want to know for sure take those 20 'duds' to the range and get someone with a 1911 or 2011 to shoot them. Btw cci are towards the harder end of the primer hardness scale. I also think it was weak strike from the gun for whatever reason (dirt, weak spring, timing, etc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_striker Posted April 22, 2017 Share Posted April 22, 2017 10 minutes ago, ChemistShooter said: I don't know. My Radio Shack calipers are not up to this particular task. All I can say for certain is the primers are below flush. Post some pics of the ones that wouldn't go off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncman Posted April 22, 2017 Share Posted April 22, 2017 If they fire second time around, they were not deep enough....The anvil in the primer got pushed out to the bottom of the pocket on first strike, seated and then bang on second strike... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benchrst Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 1: You got a crap box of primers (unlikely) 2: Your striker channel is packed with crap / weak spring / weak hammer spring (more likely) 3: Primer not seated deep enough (most likely) .02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 On 4/21/2017 at 10:50 PM, ChemistShooter said: the primers are below flush. It's NOT the primers ... It has to be the GUN - you took the trigger apart and cleaned it and put it back together Wrong ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_striker Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 On 4/23/2017 at 4:56 AM, Hi-Power Jack said: It's NOT the primers ... It has to be the GUN - you took the trigger apart and cleaned it and put it back together Wrong ... I'm still leaning more towards primers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MG08 Posted April 26, 2017 Share Posted April 26, 2017 Trouble shooting this should not be a big issue - try to refire the duds in the offending pistol. If they dont go off, refire in a different pistol. Inspect the offending rounds, and inspect them BEFORE firing. High primers should be obvious.. overinserted primers should be too, but should still go off unless your pistol is really picky. Generally you run a bigger risk of detonating a primer from crushing it than over -inserting it. then see above. One thing to consider, since I dont know what machine you loaded them on, or how you do QC, but I have run into brass that the primers "stick" and get pulled back into the case on station one of my 650. This results in a case still having the fired primer in place. I can feel it on station 2 , as the new primer dos not seat. I have missed a few and it if not caught, they end up in the bag of ammo and when loaded and "fired" give the impression of a bad primer. That said, I have run into batches of primers with higher than normal "failure rate" - as in several out of 100 will be bad. I load on the order of 20-40,000 rds of ammo in all calibers a year, so this is not a high rate. I also have a large stock of primers, some fairly old, and no failures I can attribute to old age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9x45 Posted April 27, 2017 Share Posted April 27, 2017 Chem,you have the most problems of any re-loader on the planet. What the hell are you doing wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Youngeyes Posted April 27, 2017 Share Posted April 27, 2017 2 hours ago, 9x45 said: Chem,you have the most problems of any re-loader on the planet. What the hell are you doing wrong? Be nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9x45 Posted April 28, 2017 Share Posted April 28, 2017 ok, guys, let's help ChemShooter out. Some local hoser that has a 550 needs to go over to his house and figure out what the heck is going wrong. It's painful to read this never ending story about screwed up reloads. It's supposed to read "I loadeded over 250K rounds then some little thing broke, and Dillon sent me in a new part in time for Saturdays match" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_striker Posted April 29, 2017 Share Posted April 29, 2017 6 hours ago, 9x45 said: ok, guys, let's help ChemShooter out. Some local hoser that has a 550 needs to go over to his house and figure out what the heck is going wrong. It's painful to read this never ending story about screwed up reloads. It's supposed to read "I loadeded over 250K rounds then some little thing broke, and Dillon sent me in a new part in time for Saturdays match" We can't help someone that doesn't give us the proper information. I've asked him to post pics of his primers multiple times. He's abandoned this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9x45 Posted April 29, 2017 Share Posted April 29, 2017 Well then Stiker, I'm with you. He's on his own, and don't come back around asking for any more help... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rustybayonet Posted April 29, 2017 Share Posted April 29, 2017 On Thursday, April 20, 2017 at 7:34 PM, ChemistShooter said: Yup, that's it. The primers are seated just a hair too deep. You can't detect it with calipers. You can't see it if you look down straight at them. But shine a bright light on it and look at it from the side next to a good round for comparison, and it jumps out at you. The non-firing primers have much less bulge visible. The next question is how this managed to happen. Drag out the 550B manual and check the primer seating cup height. 1.215", dead on Dillon specs. However. The inside of the primer seating cup looks like it's coated with tar. I have not cleaned it once since I got it. Right at the moment, I think that's the source of the problem. I will sonicate the cup in acetone, load a hundred, and see if that fixes it. Question for the pros: What is a good way to measure primer depth and know your primers are set properly? Calipers can't do it. Could you do it with an inside micrometer? On my 550 it seems like the primer cup gets dirty too. I also noticed a differance in primer height, between standing and sitting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9x45 Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 That's because you apply a greater amount of force to the crank arm when standing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Mitch Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 CCI has had the lowest failure rate in my experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChemistShooter Posted May 4, 2017 Author Share Posted May 4, 2017 Took the gun to the gun shop and explained the entire problem. (Also took some new reduced-power trigger springs.) Gunsmith took the gun apart, phoned me and said the striker channel was really, really dirty and that he suspected that was the true cause of the light strikes. He cleaned gun thoroughly and installed new trigger springs. Immediately took gun to gun range and tested it. 150 rounds fired without the slightest problem. So far it's looking like the gunsmith was right. Although I still think the primer cup was at least a small part of the problem. Had an immediate improvement in accuracy, too. Don't have to fight the trigger to get the gun to go bang anymore. I could just concentrate on proper grip, sight alignment, and trigger pull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChemistShooter Posted May 4, 2017 Author Share Posted May 4, 2017 On 4/29/2017 at 10:34 AM, 9x45 said: Well then an ker, I'm with you. He's on his own, and don't come back around asking for any more help... Sorry. Didn't mean to disappear like that. Family problem dropped me off the Internet for a a good while. Just ordered a 650. May yet need a bit of advice here and there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChemistShooter Posted May 6, 2017 Author Share Posted May 6, 2017 One new thing. Somebody mentioned inserting a pencil into the barrel and seeing how far it shoots out. Turned out to be a good trick. Before cleaning---pencil barely made it out of the barrel. After cleaning---pencil shot out about two feet with the same spring. (Not a Springfield Armory striker spring, as they would not sell me one, third-party.) Now i have to figure out how to clean the striker channel with my little sonicator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Watson Posted May 6, 2017 Share Posted May 6, 2017 (edited) On 5/3/2017 at 11:04 PM, ChemistShooter said: He cleaned gun thoroughly 4 minutes ago, ChemistShooter said: Now i have to figure out how to clean the striker channel with my little sonicator. Did the gunsmith use a "sonicator?" We may have a clue here. Power tools are not always The Answer. Edited May 6, 2017 by Jim Watson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieCrispo Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 I'd put my money on it being cci. Cups are hard and thickSent from my LG-H918 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9x45 Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 (edited) I've used over 150,000 CCI primers with no issues, that's not it. Chem, you remember from college that the first thing you do is define acronyms and abbreviations. What's a sonicator? Shooters are going to think it's an ultrasonic cleaner, like the harbor freight one I have to throw my entire Glock upper or AF15 bolt into. Well, it is an ultrasonic device, made by a company called Sonicator, but typically used in the chemistry lab for dispersion particles in solution.. Costing 50 times more, It's really not for cleaning gun parts, although it works the same way. It's not correct to try and impress shooters with terminology that is not familiar to them. Nobody cares if you are a chemist, a surgeon, a lawyer, a commercial pilot, even a pro golfer.... At at the end of the day, it looks like your gun was just filthy dirty. And despite the pencil test, you have yet to function fire it. To clean the firing pin bore and spot face, used a long wooden Q tip soaked in Hoppes # 9 and dry. Although I don't believe that's it either, because I've run my G17s to over 15,000 rounds before cleaning the upper. Edited May 8, 2017 by 9x45 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9x45 Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 If the gun has been properly cleaned, especially the firing pin spot face, and the loaded rounds pluck nicely in the chamber, then it's only one or both of 2 things. The primers are seated too high, or the firing pin spring is weak. New 6lb and new 5lb spring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChemistShooter Posted May 10, 2017 Author Share Posted May 10, 2017 Or both. Quite likely both. Gun continues to function properly after 300 rounds. Somewhere in all the fixing, something cured the problem, most likely the gunsmith cleaning the striker channel. +1 on the pencil trick. I checked the height first thing after cleaning the punch. 1.220', dead on Dillon specs. I used my laboratory ultrasonic cleaner to clean the striker channel, (so I wouldn't have to take the slide apart), which is more powerful than a brass ultrasonic cleaner. And that was BEFORE the trip to the gunsmith. It must've been unbelievably sludgy in there. My little Springfield manual says not one word about cleaning the striker channel. Off to Google "how to clean a striker channel with an ultrasonic cleaner" . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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