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20% of rounds failing to fire. Is it powder or CCI primers?


ChemistShooter

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Around 20% of my rounds failed to fire. I took my gun to the gun shop and they said it worked fine, and it had to be the ammo. Now I'm not sure if it's the powder or the primers.

I am loading 3.9 grains Titegroup over 115 grain Eggleston Munitions .356 coated lead 9mm. The TiteGroup I am using is coming out of an eight-pound container. I've had it around 3 years and there's only about 1 pound left. I have kept in a cool and dry closet, but I live in south Louisiana so I am wondering if humidity could be the issue.

The primers were CCI 500 Small Pistol Primers. The ones that didn't fire don't look right. There is a tiny dent where the striker hit them. Normally when I get a mis-fire I shoot it again and that works. Not this time.

 

The best answer I can come up with is it's the primers but I don't really know.


One thing is different about this batch of primers. I bought them off the shelf at Bass Pro instead of getting them (presumably) fresh from the factory.

Have any of you ever seen anything like this?

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Have you tried this ammo out of a different gun? Same issue? It very likely has to do with the seating of your primers.

 

I would think it highly unlikely but try another package of primers, someone COULD have swapped the primers in the box out for something else with a harder cup, (or just mis-packaged) highly unlikely though...

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Help to know what gun this is happening to. Striker fired guns have two things that can cause a misfire. The recoil spring is too light causing the slide to go out of battery and causing a light strike (XD's) or the striker spring is too light (Glock, M&P, XD). Like I said if you changed the recoil spring to less than 13# or have a striker spring less than 5# with CCI primers this could happen. High primers (not fully seated) can also be an issue. Try rounds in a different preferably stock gun.

Edited by Darrell
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1 hour ago, MemphisMechanic said:

No one has asked:

 

What are you shooting them out of? Does it have a factory, full power, hammer or striker spring?

9 mm XDM 3.8 Full-size. I replaced the striker spring 500 rounds ago. Couldn't get a factory replacement, can't recall who at the moment.

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The primers are below flush. Definitely not high. Primers being seated too deep is not a problem I have heard of before----which makes that a possibility, I guess.


I've got a batch that shoots just fine. I'll get the calipers out and see if there's a difference. I will measure the primer cup distance on the press too.

 

Thanks to all for the help.

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6 hours ago, Rnlinebacker said:

Either primers are seated too deep it not deep enough causing light strikes

Sent from my LG-H918 using Tapatalk
 

Yup, that's it. The primers are seated just a hair too deep. You can't detect it with calipers. You can't see it if you look down straight at them. But shine a bright light on it and look at it from the side next to a good round for comparison, and it jumps out at you. The non-firing primers have much less bulge visible.

The next question is how this managed to happen. Drag out the 550B manual and check the primer seating cup height. 1.215", dead on Dillon specs.

However.

The inside of the primer seating cup looks like it's coated with tar. I have not cleaned it once since I got it. Right at the moment, I think that's the source of the problem. I will sonicate the cup in acetone, load a hundred, and see if that fixes it.

Question for the pros: What is a good way to measure primer depth and know your primers are set properly? Calipers can't do it. Could you do it with an inside micrometer?

Edited by ChemistShooter
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The only time I've had this issue it was a timing problem.  Everyone on the forums I belonged to tried to blame it on the primers, the seating depth, the striker spring, etc.

 

It was a timing issue.  The striker block was not completely lifted out of the way of the striker when the sear released the striker.  The striker would hit the block, get slowed down and make a slight dent in the primer.  This was a couple of M&P pistols (two of them because I took the APEX parts from the 9MM and put them in the .357 SIG and the problem followed the parts move).  I know how I fixed it in the M&P, not sure how to do it with an XD/XDM.  But that block has got to be completely out of the way (lifted up) prior to the sear releasing the striker.

 

I'm not saying it's not a primer issue, in your XDM, just saying primers are the first thing people point the finger at and sometimes it can be something else.

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They are not too deep. 

 

Do a plunk test and see see if your ammo got too long. If they are just a thou too long they can hold the slide back just right causing an oob issue. Slight oob that actually click will make very faint dents in primers typically just a little off  center but not always.

 

i can't believe you put a striker spring in a gun without knowing what weight it is. Could have a slightly dirty channel and a light spring causing the light strikes.

 

They are not too deep.

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20 minutes ago, M1A4ME said:

The only time I've had this issue it was a timing problem.  Everyone on the forums I belonged to tried to blame it on the primers, the seating depth, the striker spring, etc.

 

It was a timing issue.  The striker block was not completely lifted out of the way of the striker when the sear released the striker.  The striker would hit the block, get slowed down and make a slight dent in the primer.  This was a couple of M&P pistols (two of them because I took the APEX parts from the 9MM and put them in the .357 SIG and the problem followed the parts move).  I know how I fixed it in the M&P, not sure how to do it with an XD/XDM.  But that block has got to be completely out of the way (lifted up) prior to the sear releasing the striker.

 

I'm not saying it's not a primer issue, in your XDM, just saying primers are the first thing people point the finger at and sometimes it can be something else.

Thanks for the input. Don't think that's what the source of my problem is, though. I had an older batch I shot 50 rounds out of without a single FTF. If the pistol was the problem, it would've happened no matter what the ammo was.

My cleaning solution turned gray. Gunpowder gray. Powder build-up in the cup.

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48 minutes ago, Sarge said:

They are not too deep. 

 

Do a plunk test and see see if your ammo got too long. If they are just a thou too long they can hold the slide back just right causing an oob issue. Slight oob that actually click will make very faint dents in primers typically just a little off  center but not always.

 

i can't believe you put a striker spring in a gun without knowing what weight it is. Could have a slightly dirty channel and a light spring causing the light strikes.

 

They are not too deep.

Hmmm, ok, plunk test performed. They rotate freely and fall out. Same as my good batch.

Length all exactly the same, 1.160".

Springfield Armory would not send me a striker spring. I consulted with Springer Precision. They sent me a spring labeled "OEM Spring". I have a friend who builds AR-15s. He showed me how and stood over me while I changed the striker spring, and we tested with 250 rounds at the local range. Don't know what the weight is, but it was 500 rounds ago.

Right at the moment I still think it was crud in the primer seating cup. You shoulda seen my cleaning solution. It went from clear to gunpowder gray. That friggin' cup was filthy.

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They aren't too deep.  Based on what you stated about the storage conditions of your powder and primers, it's safe to say they are fine.  

 

You can easily measure primer depth using calipers.  Calipers can measure three different dimensions.  OD, ID, and depth.  OD and ID are pretty self explanatory.  A lot of people don't know you can measure depth. 

 

Look at the picture below.  See the metal "strip" that starts extending as you open the calipers opposite of the LCD screen?  Put that part on the primer and push down gently.  The reading on the LCD is your primer depth.

 

Unless your primers are .020" or deeper, they aren't too deep.  .005"-.011" seemed to be the sweet spot on a couple of very lightly sprung CZ's I used to run with Federal primers.  When I used Winchester, I'd try crushing them in there even more but it was difficult getting them much more than .013" and even then it was only on headstamps with deeper pockets.

417494.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by d_striker
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I forgot to add (probably won't help, but just for info) that when I was having the problems with my M&Ps I installed a stronger Glock striker spring in the M&P.  That didn't help either.  It fit, but it didn't stop the problem.

 

I did a pencil test with my Glock, XDM and M&P pistols.  The XDM's, by far, popped the pencil up the farthest.  The M&Ps and Glocks wouldn't pop the pencil out of the barrels, the XDM would smack it up in the air about 12 to 18" out of the muzzle.  So the XDMs usually hit the primers pretty hard.

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OP-have you done a trigger job on your xdm?  If so, it's possible you don't have enough overtravel and the striker safety is catching the striker. 

 

If it's stock, it's more than likely your primers aren't deep enough. 

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6 hours ago, d_striker said:

OP-have you done a trigger job on your xdm?  If so, it's possible you don't have enough overtravel and the striker safety is catching the striker. 

 

If it's stock, it's more than likely your primers aren't deep enough. 

No, no trigger job. Hmm, I did take the trigger out to clean it and put it back together. But I didn't take the trigger apart, just took the parts out and cleaned them. The trigger was feeling flaky. It was a lot better after I got all the carbon off.

 

I sonicated the slide in ethanol. I pulled a ton of crud out of the slide, and that was after a regular cleaning. It was still turning dark after an hour and three solvent changes.

 

Might have been crud in the striker channel.

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