Para 16 Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 (edited) NOTE : the rounds with the ............ lines are just ones I am waiting to be delivered, so that data will follow later. As always... YMMV... so please view my carbines data as just my results... the same barrel, under the same conditions, so as to eliminate variables, .... your carbine might be faster or slower slightly. I want to make sure everyone realizes my results are from a Colt Pattern Carbine, with a mag block insert..... any feeding issues might not happen in a Glock Pattern, or a designed from the ground up 9x19 carbine ( Beretta, Sig .. etc.. ) So take the feeding issues with a grain of salt. I realize most people are not really concerned with the velocity of various 9x19 rounds... but ...My goal was to see what will run in my carbine, what the velocities were , and "guesstimating" what the added velocity would do to the various JHP, Bonded HP's, Copper HP's etc.... ( You have to start somewhere... ) A good example would be the Fed. XM9001.... that older design bullet already penetrates to a shallow depth.. and the added velocity will probably make its penetration depth less... kinda acting like a "varmint" 9mm round. I also know there are various other sites with very helpful info ( BBTI ) ... but, some of their data is kind of dated, and does not include the newest rounds. Weather.....68 degrees, slightly overcast, chronograph was 12 feet from the muzzle. 18rds of each 9x19 ammo was chronographed... The reason being, I am going to later conduct a 32rd mag test concerning reliability / feeding and accuracy test... I will include the FTF and FTE , etc from this round of testing. My "standard" for velocity checks, is GECO Swiss 124gr... I have found it to be very consistent and accurate... so I used it every hour to spot check velocity. Just to make sure the sun or "murphy's law " wasn't skewing chronograph results. Rifle info.... PSA 16" 9MM Colt Pattern Hybrid, 1n10 twist, Lantac Muzzle Brake, ALG ACT trigger with JP Springs, 6.75oz Buffer, Tubbs .308 variable power spring. Competition Electronics ProChrono Pal Chronograph was used.... General observations... Not all 9mm is created equal... I observed numerous nasty bullet setbacks.. Photos will follow later... but it was obvious some brands use better QC and neck tensions / crimp pressure.... ( Remember YMMV ) Only one 9mm OEM round would not cycle consistently, it should be noted that every other FMJ bullet fed perfectly in my carbine, but not the MaxxTech 115gr FMJ ... and it was VERY low velocity as well ( compared to same weight ammo ) perhaps the low velocity contributed to the feed issues..... While some of the ammo was expensive, those same rounds were very impressive in function.. I have to say Buffalo Bore ammo was 100% reliable....even while using the same bullet ( Barnes X bullet ) that other manufacturers rounds had trouble with. I expected some JHP's to choke while feeding, simply because of the HP's profile and the less then perfect feed ramps of a Colt pattern carbine.... and some did.... consistently across the weights. That is NOT to say it is bad ammo... just not a good choice in my AR15 Colt pattern 9MM... that same ammo might feed perfectly in a Sig MPX... Or a Glock Pattern AR....or such. As we all know... a blowback 9mm carbine can get filthy quickly, and some ammo burns very clean... while some burns filthy. If you are running a suppressor..... I strongly suggest you use the cleanest burning, fully coated / "sealed" bullet.... I was just starting to have issues with chambering at the end of the day.. from the gunk that had accumulated. There was no noticeable effect on velocities... just function got sluggish. Onward to the velocity results.... ( accuracy and 32rd reliability tests will be part 2 ) Edited April 21, 2017 by Para 16 Link to comment
Para 16 Posted April 19, 2017 Author Share Posted April 19, 2017 (edited) 115gr and below... Polycase, 65gr Interceptor.................................................................................................. Polycase, 65gr Interceptor RNP........................................................................................... Ruger, +P 80gr ARX............................................................................................................ Buffalo Bore, +P+ 95gr Barnes TAC-XP..........1880fps, very consistent, Low ES LeHigh Defense, +P 90gr Extreme Defense... 1773fps, no issues. Magtech, 95gr JSP............................................................................................................... Hornady, 100gr Lite, Flextip................................................................................................... Aguila, 115gr FMJ......................................1360fps, low ES Aguila, +P 115gr FMJ.................................1418fps Armscor, 115gr FMJ...................................1200fps, very smooth shooting. Barnes, +P 115gr XTAC...............................1303fps ...4 FTF Blazer, 115gr FMJ.......................................1335fps Brown Bear, 115gr FMJ ..............................1398fps... the gunky chamber didn't like the Lacquered case Browning, 115gr FMJ...................................1392 Buffalo Bore, +P+ 115gr Barnes TAC-XP .....1505fps, very low ES, so much so that it was noticeable , very consistent feeling. Colt SCHP, 115gr Solid Copper HP...............1360fps.... dismal feeding.. 8 FTF... no setback though Estate, 115gr FMJ........................................................................................................................................................... Federal, 115gr FMJ Aluminum cased, .........1326fps... 4 NASTY bullet setbacks resulting in FTF Federal, 115gr JHP, XM9001.......................1532fps Federal 115gr SynTech...............................1362fps....3 FTF... found a chunk of the "Poly" jacket in the rifle cleanup Federal, +P+ 115gr JHP 9BPLE............................................................................................................................................. Federal, 115gr JHP 9BP......................................................................................................................................................... Federal, 115gr FMJ AE.......................................................................................................................................................... Federal, 115gr FMJ "Champion"............................................................................................................................................. Fiocchi, 115gr HP................................................................................................................................................................. Fiocchi, 115gr FMJ............................................................................................................................................................... Herters, 115gr "Total Nylon Jacket"...................................................................................................................................... Hornady, 115gr C. Defense FTX...................1340fps HotShot, 115gr FMJ............................................................................................................................................................ GECO, 115gr FMJ, German made................1334fps IMI, 115gr FMJ..........................................1427fps, very low ES, clean IMI 115gr Di-Cut.................................................................................................................................................................. Independence, 115gr FMJ..........................1305fps... 60 ES Magtech, 115gr FMJ..................................1371fps Magtech, +P+ 115gr JHP.................................................................................................................................................. MaxxTech, 115gr FMJ................................1198fps, for a FMJ bullet..numerous FTF, underpowered part of the issue ? PMC, 115gr FMJ........................................1287fps PPU, 115gr FMJ.........................................1363fps, NASTY setback in 9rds ( worst of all the setbacks ) This is the ammo that made me realize "not all ammo is equal" PPU, 115gr FMJ NATO....................................................................................................................................................... Sellier & Bellot, 115gr FMJ.........................1340, large ES 102, smelled odd ?! Sellier & Bellot, 115gr JHP.........................1370fps.... 5 FTF, 2 with setback Sig Sauer, 115gr FMJ.................................1498fps Sig Sauer, 115gr JHP V-Crown....................1462fps... NASTY setback... AGAIN, setback in my Carbine YMMV !!! Silver Bear, 115gr .....................................1525fps Speer, 115gr GD................................................................................................................................................................. Speer, 115gr TMJ.......................................1396fps Speer, +P 115gr TMJ.......................................................................................................................................................... Speer, +P+ 115gr GD......................................................................................................................................................... Winc., 115gr FMJ.......................................1370fps Winc., 115gr FMJ "Forged" Wolf, 115gr FMJ Military Classic.......................................................................................................................................... Wolf, 115gr FMJ Polyperformance..............1530fps... 1st lot #,... tested twice because of the high velocities Wolf, 115gr FMJ Polyperformance..............1410fps... 2nd different lot #,... also tested twice because of the very different lots. Edited April 21, 2017 by Para 16 Added more rounds to test Link to comment
Para 16 Posted April 19, 2017 Author Share Posted April 19, 2017 (edited) 124gr Aguila, 124gr FMJ.................................1280fps Armscor, 124gr FMJ Armscor, 124gr JHP Atomic, +P 124gr JHP, Match....................................................................................................................................... Buffalo Bore, +P 124gr JHP...................1470fps Century, 124gr FMJ....................................................................................................................................................... Colt 124gr JHP, by Double Tap..............1332fps , 3 FTF , 3 setback of the setbacks single loaded and fired.. 1419fps Colt NM 124gr FMJ................................1280fps Federal, 124gr HST...................................1335fps.. oddly a little smokey Federal, +P 124gr HST..............................1422fps Federal,124gr FMJ AE................................1287fps Federal, 124gr "Suppressor"........................................................................................................................................... Fiocchi, 124gr JHP.......................................................................................................................................................... Fiocchi, 124gr Truncated Cone........................................................................................................................................ Hornady, 125gr FMJ, Steel Match.................................................................................................................................... Hornady, +P 124gr TAP FPD.....................1378fps, 2 FTF, no bullet setback GECO, 124gr FMJ Hungarian.....................1242fps GECO, 124gr Copper Clad Steel Jacket, Swiss.... 1248fps... 8 ES Independence, 124gr FMJ................................................................................................................................................ IMI 124gr FMJ.........................................1325fps Magtech, 124gr Bonded JHP.................1392fps MagTech, 124gr FMJ............................1328, very Low ES MEN 124gr FMJ....................................1310fps PMC 124gr Starfire...............................1235fps, Honestly , I thought this would not feed... but it was perfect... soft shooting. PMC, 124gr FMJ ...................................1195fps Remington, +P 124gr BlackBelt GS........1398fps... 1 FTF, no setback Remington, +P 124gr GS.......................1395fps... Perfect Sellier & Belliot, 124gr FMJ, Gov. Contract RUAG........................................................................................................................ Sellier & Belliot, 124gr FMJ...................1280fps Sellier & Belliot, 124gr Soft Point...........1290fps Sig Sauer, 124gr JHP V-Crown..............1430fps... nasty setback 5rds.. 5FTF.. didn't like my Colt pattern feed lips. Speer +P 124gr GD..............................1458fps Speer 124gr GD...................................1376fps Speer 124gr TMJ .................................1304fps Winchester 124gr FMJ NATO................1340fps Edited April 21, 2017 by Para 16 Link to comment
Para 16 Posted April 19, 2017 Author Share Posted April 19, 2017 (edited) 135gr, 147gr, and 158gr Federal, +P 135gr Tactical Bonded HP......1345fps.... Hornady, 135gr Critical Duty Flexlock......1130fps, very low ES 14 Hornady, +P 135gr Critical Duty, Flex. ....1225fps.. ES 18 Sellier & Bellot, 140gr FMJ.................................................................................................................................... Aguila, 147gr FMJ................................................................................................................................................. AYSM, 147gr "Match"..............................998fps.... Browning, 147gr X Point.........................1122fps... 2 FTF... no bullet setback Browning, 147gr FMJ..............................1168fps... smooth as a sewing machine...and clean burning Federal, +P 147gr HST..........................1182fps Federal, 147gr JHP "9MS".......................1132fps Fiocchi, 147gr FMJ....................................................................................................................................................... Magtech, 147gr JHP...............................1195fps... High ES 98 Magtech, 147gr FMJ..................................................................................................................................................... Remington, 147gr FMJ............................1144fps.... slightly odd bullet profile, but no issues. Sig Sauer, 147gr FMJ.................................................................................................................................................... Sig Sauer, 147gr V-Crown.......................1165fps, 11rds FTF, nasty bullet setback... I am confident the V-Crown ( Sierra ) bullet is a GREAT design... but it just didn't feed in my carbine. Silver Bear, 145gr JHP............................1052fps, 3 FTF.. no bullet setback Speer 147gr GD ( 1st Gen ).....................1184fps... 5 FTF... no bullet setback... Speer, 147gr TMJ......................................................................................................................................................... Winc. 147gr FMJ Train & Defend..............1107fps.... very accurate, very clean burning, and very smooth running... My favorite carbine ammo. Hands down. Winc. 147gr Bonded JHP ........................1167fps Winc. 147gr FMJ, White Box.......................................................................................................................................... Winc. 147gr, JHP, White Box.......................................................................................................................................... Wolf, 147gr JHP, "Gold"................................................................................................................................................. Fiocchi, 158gr FMJ........................................................................................................................................................ IMI, 158gr FMJ.......................................1018fps.... low ES 16 PPU, 158gr FMJ......................................1005fps Edited April 21, 2017 by Para 16 Link to comment
NervousEnergy Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 Great data, thanks for posting that! Two questions: First is the really stupid question. ES stands for what? Second, and this one is pretty subjective: any input into felt recoil among the various rounds? Link to comment
1911luvr Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 Great data, thanks for posting that! Two questions: First is the really stupid question. ES stands for what? Second, and this one is pretty subjective: any input into felt recoil among the various rounds?I believe it stands for extreme spread in his report. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment
Para 16 Posted April 21, 2017 Author Share Posted April 21, 2017 Yes, ES stands for Extreme Spread. Link to comment
Para 16 Posted April 21, 2017 Author Share Posted April 21, 2017 (edited) Added more up coming rounds for chronographing... They are the ones with all the ................................ behind them. And ordered some Atlantic Arms AMU rounds and some 147gr Major ... ( I suspect these are loaded with VV 3N38, at about 1200fps from a pistol ) Edited April 21, 2017 by Para 16 Link to comment
jkrispies Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 Nice! I won't ask what your ammo budget is. Link to comment
Para 16 Posted April 22, 2017 Author Share Posted April 22, 2017 Lol.... don't ask.. I am in denial. Mods , Is there a way to edit my first 3 data posts ? I have other additional rounds coming... and / or.. should I wait until I have the actual chrono data ? Link to comment
barrysuperhawk Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 This is awesome. I have had some of the same setback problems you have had in addition I have had some really odd jams with the fed aluminum - but only in my carbine. Is there any chance that you could publish your data in spreadsheet format, maybe using google docs or something similar? If you don't have a ready way to publish, I will volunteer to host it for you (everyone). Link to comment
Para 16 Posted April 25, 2017 Author Share Posted April 25, 2017 (edited) On 4/22/2017 at 7:43 PM, barrysuperhawk said: This is awesome. I have had some of the same setback problems you have had in addition I have had some really odd jams with the fed aluminum - but only in my carbine. Is there any chance that you could publish your data in spreadsheet format, maybe using google docs or something similar? If you don't have a ready way to publish, I will volunteer to host it for you (everyone). I don't have it in spreadsheet format... and frankly have no idea how to do that easily. If someone wanted to do it... I could input the additional info as I get it. IM me I am more then happy to share with everyone. Edited April 25, 2017 by Para 16 Link to comment
barrysuperhawk Posted April 26, 2017 Share Posted April 26, 2017 23 hours ago, Para 16 said: I don't have it in spreadsheet format... and frankly have no idea how to do that easily. If someone wanted to do it... I could input the additional info as I get it. IM me I am more then happy to share with everyone. Ok, here is the first draft of the data. I have it set to read only, and viewable without sign in. This is a DRAFT hand copied from this thread, please help me proof and let me know any errors. Once we have it sorted out, I can publish a permanent copy. Google Docs link Link to comment
Para 16 Posted April 26, 2017 Author Share Posted April 26, 2017 Very Nice. Thank you for your effort... I truly appreciate it. The rest of the ammo is due to come in next week. ... I also have a variety of older 9x19 rounds I would like to add as well... ( Winc. 127gr +P+, Silvertip, Winc. 115gr +P+ ...anything from the '80s and '90s I have sitting in the assorted ammo pile, that I have to sort ) Can that be added to the permanent copy at a later date ? Also if possible, could the "Para 16" name also include "bfoosh06" ... I can't seem to figure out if I can change my "name" on this site to my much more common internet name. Link to comment
Para 16 Posted April 26, 2017 Author Share Posted April 26, 2017 (edited) And Barrysuperhawk.... If you are interested....I have a bunch of .223 /5.56 data as well.... 150+ rds ( not gonna count all of them right now... ) fired from a 16" and 20" AR. Same boat on adding some data.... and sorting through my surplus piles.http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_16/676005_Various-Chronograph-results----16-Middie-and-20-Rifle------223---5-56.html Edited April 26, 2017 by Para 16 Link to comment
extremist Posted May 7, 2017 Share Posted May 7, 2017 My experience with your favorite Winchester 147gr Train and Defend FMJ TC ammo in my Wilson AR9G carbine was disasterous at the USPSA Cowtown match this weekend. Worked fine on the bench, superb accuracy. Won't work reliably under rapid fire. My experience. My gun. Only ammo I've found so far that won't work reliably. FYI, YMMV. Thanks for all the Chrony info though, it's interesting. BTW, the T&D 147gr ammo only chrono'd at about 980fps in my Wilson. Link to comment
Para 16 Posted May 9, 2017 Author Share Posted May 9, 2017 Rounds added 7th May. 115gr and below... Polycase, 65gr Interceptor....................................1940fps, smelled like burning plastic slightly Polycase, 65gr Interceptor RNP............................1844fps, smelled like burning plastic slightly Ruger, +P 80gr ARX..............................................1689fps, very low ES 12, smelled like burning plastic slightly Magtech, 95gr JSP................................................1694fps Hornady, 100gr Lite, Flextip...................................1326fps, 2 bullet setbacks Estate, 115gr FMJ..................................................1310fps Federal, +P+ 115gr JHP 9BPLE...........................1640fps, very smooth running and feeding Federal, 115gr JHP 9BP.......................................1363fps, very smooth running and feeding Federal, 115gr FMJ AE.........................................1324fps Federal, 115gr FMJ "Champion"..........................1340fps, oddly, softer recoil then the above AE Fiocchi, 115gr HP.................................................1458fps Fiocchi, 115gr FMJ...............................................1316fps, large ES 88 Herters, 115gr "Total Nylon Jacket"......................1340fps, large ES 88 HotShot, 115gr FMJ..............................................1372fps IMI 115gr Di-Cut....................................................1352fps Magtech, +P+ 115gr JHP......................................1640fps, very fast 115gr PPU, 115gr FMJ NATO..........................................1448fps Speer, 115gr GD....................................................1525fps, ordered another box.. surprisingly fast. ... and tested twice at different hours. Speer, +P 115gr TMJ.............................................1382fps Speer, +P+ 115gr GD.............................................1596fps, given the "standard" pressure loads velocity, I was surprised this wasn't faster. Wolf, 115gr FMJ Military Classic.............................1352fps Link to comment
Para 16 Posted May 9, 2017 Author Share Posted May 9, 2017 Rounds added 7th May. 124gr Atomic, +P 124gr JHP, Match.......................................................1565fps Federal, 124gr "Suppressor"........................................................1145fps Fiocchi, 124gr JHP........................................................................1377fps Fiocchi, 124gr Truncated Cone......................................................1292fps Hornady, 125gr FMJ, Steel Match.................................................1258fps Independence, 124gr FMJ.............................................................1325fps Sellier & Belliot, 124gr FMJ, Gov. Contract RUAG.........................1201fps Link to comment
Para 16 Posted May 9, 2017 Author Share Posted May 9, 2017 Rounds added 7th May. 147gr and above. Aguila, 147gr FMJ......................................1140fps Fiocchi, 147gr FMJ.....................................1078fps Magtech, 147gr FMJ...................................1090fps Sig Sauer, 147gr FMJ..................................1248fps Speer, 147gr TMJ.......................................1182fps Winc. 147gr FMJ, White Box.......................1098fps Winc. 147gr, JHP, White Box......................1146fps Wolf, 147gr JHP, "Gold"...............................970-1109.... huge ES, throughout the string Fiocchi, 158gr FMJ........................................947fps Link to comment
MLS2GO Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 Thanks for posting this, great information. Link to comment
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