Switched from .356 to .355. Having problems.

[B_RAD]

I've been loading .356" xtreme 147's for the last year. I've never loaded jackets but since the cost of the Xtremes have gone up I decided to give jacketed a try. I got some 147 Zeros.  They're .355". 

 

I loaded up 100 and got 10 that would case gauge. The Coke bottle effect is way more pronounced and it seems like it's causing them to bulge and fail case gauge. 

 

I'm loading on the same press as before and nothing but the bullet has changed. 

 

Am I missing something?  Not sure why I'd have more failures with a smaller diameter bullet?  I have maybe 1 failure out of 100 with the .356" xtreme.  

Edited April 16, 2017 by B_RAD

[GringoBandito]

If you have a magic marker, mark up one of the finished bullets and run it into the case gauge to see where the brass is rubbing..What is your crimp? I run mine at .3795 and everything case gauges like butta..

[Hi-Power Jack]

Sounds ridiculous, but could it be your OAL - pushing them in

a little too much or too little might cause a case gauge failure.    ???

[TDA]

Either wnat HPJ stated above, or the new bullets are not fitting very well in the seating die and are seating crooked.

[adamge]

People still use case gauges?

[Taroman]

OP did not mention what brass he uses.

Some of the imported stuff is thicker in the middle and other ways.

Try loading only RP, WW, FED brass and see if your problem goes away.

[B_RAD]

2 hours ago, Hi-Power Jack said:

Sounds ridiculous, but could it be your OAL - pushing them in

a little too much or too little might cause a case gauge failure.    ???

Nope. I think it could be this. 

 

1 hour ago, TDA said:

Either wnat HPJ stated above, or the new bullets are not fitting very well in the seating die and are seating crooked.

Think this too could be an issue. I'm trying to hold them straight when seating on the 650. 

 

1 hour ago, Taroman said:

OP did not mention what brass he uses.

Some of the imported stuff is thicker in the middle and other ways.

Try loading only RP, WW, FED brass and see if your problem goes away.

Mixed brass. The worst one I've seen so far was with some junk foreign stuff but It's also happened with win. 

[superdude]

Sometimes the base of soft plated bullets will swage down in size when they are pushed deep in some brands of cases so they don't appear to bulge the case, whereas hard jacketed bullets will bulge the case at the base of the bullet because they are too hard to swage. 

[B_RAD]

30 minutes ago, superdude said:

Sometimes the base of soft plated bullets will swage down in size when they are pushed deep in some brands of cases so they don't appear to bulge the case, whereas hard jacketed bullets will bulge the case at the base of the bullet because they are too hard to swage. 

Thought this too. 

 

So, what's the solution? Don't seat as deep?  I'm seating to about 1.130" OAL. 

Edited April 16, 2017 by B_RAD

[rdinga]

Thinking its either a brass or die setting issue. I load Zero 147 JHP's to 1.10 with no problems using sorted Winchester brass or Speer nickel plated brass. 

[superdude]

12 minutes ago, B_RAD said:

Thought this too. 

 

So, what's the solution? Don't seat as deep?  I'm seating to about 1.130" OAL. 

 

Yes, if possible. As rdinga notes, you might need to sort brass.

 

If the bullets are seated crooked the problem is exaggerated.

[RangeHooligan]

B_RAD, will they drop into the chamber of your barrel?

RH

[B_RAD]

1 hour ago, RangeHooligan said:

B_RAD, will they drop into the chamber of your barrel?

RH

Not the ones that failed case gauge. 

[RangeHooligan]

Any chance the crimp die is over doing what's needed?  I know this sounds bass-ackwards but I have seen over crimping cause the brass to deform just enough to prevent proper chambering.  This may have not been appearant when using soft lead as your bullet.

 

RH 

[Fantom919]

What are you crimping to? I load 1.15 147gr zeros with a .3785 crimp. 

 

Did you have any coke bottle shapes with the plated? I typically see more of those with my .356 bayous. 

 

The DAA powder funnel also helps to keep the bullet straight.

[BeerBaron]

Try a regular lee size/decap die vs what you have now. 

[Hi-Power Jack]

Any progress?

[B_RAD]

3 hours ago, Hi-Power Jack said:

Any progress?

Been busy. I'm trying to do too much at once. 

 

Im really trying to work up a USPSA load. 

 

I belive my crimp is around .379". 

 

I have not had had the Coke bottle effect with .356" xtremes.  Only with .356" coated and these .355" Zeros. The Zeros seem worse. 

 

I was shooting xtreme but thier price increase made me want to look at other options. I'm not against going to coated but I remembered how I had this problem with coated before. Ive never loaded jacketed. 

 

While it's a price thing with plated, it's not a price thing. I just don't want to pay jacketed prices for plated. 

 

My other problem is I'm chasing that mythical (probably nonexistent) magical load. Out of the mythical (definitely nonexistent) magical gun. 

 

I'm currently working on switching to my G34 from my CZ Shadow. I know, I know.....!  Why?!  I just want to kick butt with the G34. 

 

Anywyas, I like to tinker.  Which is really counterproductive in the USPSA world. 

[BeerBaron]

Once you get this sorted I think you'll be happy with the zeros. 

 

I don't know if you ever mic'd the xtremes but they are notorious for being undersized. Wouldn't surprise me if they were 355 or even 3545. 

[GregJ]

I had to seat 124 zeros at 1.100 in order to get them to pass an EGW or Wilson gauge.  Hondo gauge doesnt check OAL.  

 

I was setting up a new 1050, and working up 9 Minor loads for the first time (had shot/load SS Major for years). My rounds would not consistently gauge. This drove me crazy trying to figure out why they wouldnt gauge, until I marked them with a sharpie and saw they were rubbing on the bullet between the ogive and case.

 

My crimp is about .3770 (changes with headstamp, but this is a good average), I use an EGW-U sizing die, Redding Comp seat die, and Forrester taper crimp die. 

 

Good luck in getting it resolved.

[B_RAD]

I'm still shooting other bullets alteady loaded up. I hope to get back tot Jesse this weekend and load some.  

 

My cause gauge is a hundo. The ones that are failing are bad. They won't plunk in my G34 barrel. It's not an OAL thing it's the base of the bullet and the case bulging. Like I said, I've been shooting plated so my crimp was very minimal.  I want to say around .378".  

 

The xtremes actually seem to be pretty dang consistent as far as I've seen. I've always pulled out a few form each box and measured them with calipers. They've always been .356". Though, that's using a caliper.  

 

I also have some PD 124 hp coming.  I'll load up a few on the same press and see if I get the same problem. I know those will be different profile and will be seated different but they'll be .355".  

Edited April 20, 2017 by B_RAD

[ShortBus]

.379 is on the loose side for range brass and .355's. Measure some bullets, measure some case thicknesses, and then adjust accordingly. 

[icestud]

On 4/20/2017 at 5:00 AM, GregJ said:

I had to seat 124 zeros at 1.100 in order to get them to pass an EGW or Wilson gauge.  Hondo gauge doesnt check OAL.  

 

I was setting up a new 1050, and working up 9 Minor loads for the first time (had shot/load SS Major for years). My rounds would not consistently gauge. This drove me crazy trying to figure out why they wouldnt gauge, until I marked them with a sharpie and saw they were rubbing on the bullet between the ogive and case.

 

My crimp is about .3770 (changes with headstamp, but this is a good average), I use an EGW-U sizing die, Redding Comp seat die, and Forrester taper crimp die. 

 

Good luck in getting it resolved.

 

Do you have a part number for the Forrester taper crimp die?

[Wheeljack]

What size is your barrel?  Have you slugged the barrel?  Bullet size plus thickness of shell at mouth, times 2 should give you a crimp size.  Push the bullet to make sure have enough crimp.  Have you checked COL.  Does the bullet fit the mag without binding?  With a bullet in the chamber, can you spin it?  Does it drop out of the chamber if you point the barrel up?   I have never understood a case gauge.  I make my bullets fit my barrels not a generic gauge.