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All in on first 2011?


Tacticalpanda

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I've been looking to get a 2011.  I've shot them a bit at matches and liked them, but it usually takes me a couple hundred rounds to find out if I really like the gun.  This brings me to my question.   I've been shooting CZ's but want to try something new for a bit.  This gun will be for 3 gun only.  I've read through lots of posts and can't decide on which gun to go with.

 

I originally thought I would get and S.P.S Pantera to get my feet wet and see if I really like the platform but they are nowhere to be found in 9mm and I've been looking for the last few months.  Then as i went deeper into the rabbit hole I discovered Atlas and CK arms. I'm at the point now where I'm not sure if I want to go all in on this gun and spend the $4k+ with a wait of a few months and not have it or should I hold out for a S.P.S Pantera if I can ever find one?  My last option is to go middle of the road and get a STI Tactical or Edge.  While I keep reading buy once cry once I'm not a firm believer in this saying as my CZ's are middle of the road and I love them.  

 

So this brings me to my question, Should I go all in on my first 2011?  Money isn't a huge concern, but again being new to the platform I'm not sure if I'll appreciate the $4k+ on a custom 2011.  Or should I start small, plan to shoot it and if I like it go custom then sell the original?

 

last question, where are all the S.P.S. Pantera's in 9mm?  All i find is .45!  

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Shootersconnection has CK's in stock.  You could have it Tuesday if you want.  They make a good gun and if you don't like it, you could sell it here the following week and be done deciding if you like 2011's or not before the summer gets away from you.

 

molson

 

P.S.  and it will not cost 4 grand ?

Edited by molson
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I would peak in the classifieds. In recent memory there have been a few 9mm 2011s from respected builders in and around 2k. 

 

The SPS pantera seems like a good gun, it really does, but the average price they pop up for these days seems to be around 1400+. For a few hundred more (1700-2000ish range) you can pick up a used tuned Edge or used gun from a smaller but respected builder. I'd suggest one of those options over the Pantera because if you decide to resell they'll hold their value much more than the Pantera will. 

 

There have also been some used  Atlas and Akai guns in the classifieds. If you got one and didn't love it you could turn around and get your money back when you sold it easily.

 

The platform is expensive, so better to spend a little more now than get an entry 2011, which will still run you 1500ish+ and then love it. Sell that for a grand or less and then go buy a higher quality gun and be out 500 on top of whatever the newer gun costs.

Edited by KrymSIX
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Thanks for the responses so far.   Atlas is top of my list right now.  With ck arms in second.   

 

I've been checking the classifieds pretty often but nothing has caught my eye. 

 

So far what I'm gathering is pass on the sti's and spend the money? 

 

If so now deciding if I want the ck or the atlas.

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54 minutes ago, Tacticalpanda said:

 

So far what I'm gathering is pass on the sti's and spend the money? 

 

 

 

You know, there's probably a reason why STI sells more guns than all the rest combined. Personally I think the problem has more to do with the owners than the guns. (any problems I've had, they've fixed in a very short time. I've had very few problems)

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I think the statement "buy once cry once" is misunderstood....

There's nothing inherently wrong with an SPS or STI... however, they're the most popular because of their price point not because they're "the best"...

 

Most people tend to start there and migrate over to a semi/custom platform because they're either bored and want something shiner, or they feel they're ready for peak performance, whatever that may mean...

 

Theoretically a Ck is an "upgraded" STI... better parts but same labor. So that's not a bad choice. You could get one and keep it forever without wondering if your sacrificing any performance gains...

 

However, a semi/custom builder spends twice the amount of time per gun than a factory shop does, so they say the quality and performance will never be an issue.

 

For me, I was in same boat as you... I want to shoot open now and the steel grip is all the rage on 2011s... adding one to an existing sti type gun costs a lot if you can't do your own figment...

Which is why I opted for an Atlas Chaos.... (hopefully I'm in the April batch)

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

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55 minutes ago, bigbob21 said:

I think the statement "buy once cry once" is misunderstood....

There's nothing inherently wrong with an SPS or STI... however, they're the most popular because of their price point not because they're "the best"...

 

Most people tend to start there and migrate over to a semi/custom platform because they're either bored and want something shiner, or they feel they're ready for peak performance, whatever that may mean...

 

Theoretically a Ck is an "upgraded" STI... better parts but same labor. So that's not a bad choice. You could get one and keep it forever without wondering if your sacrificing any performance gains...

 

However, a semi/custom builder spends twice the amount of time per gun than a factory shop does, so they say the quality and performance will never be an issue.

 

For me, I was in same boat as you... I want to shoot open now and the steel grip is all the rage on 2011s... adding one to an existing sti type gun costs a lot if you can't do your own figment...

Which is why I opted for an Atlas Chaos.... (hopefully I'm in the April batch)

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I get what you're saying.   Where I'm coming from is I shoot primarily prs.  When I starated in that game I was shooting a savage, then I made changes, then a remington which I upgraded.  Now everything I shoot is custom and the way I want it.  So that's my thinking with the 2011, an I gonna buy then 2 or 3 months later want to upgrade.  

 

As for sticking with cz just cause I love them now doesnt mean I can't like something more.   Im shooting a shadow 2 and there are some things Id like to change.  And not to sound like a pompous ass but I'm lucky enough to be able to spend more then I should on guns. 

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1 hour ago, Tacticalpanda said:

  my thinking with the 2011, an I gonna buy then 2 or 3 months later want to upgrade.  

 

I'd continue to shoot my CZ, until I made up my own mind re:  a 2011.

 

BUT, if "everything you shoot is custom", you might want to go for a full custom 2011 ...   :) 

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Well, you might try buying a good used 2011, custom or otherwise, and shoot it for a season.  You will be able to get most of your money back later.  Since you don't shoot a 2011 you will not be familiar with them.  You don't want to "upgrade" in 2-3 months, but the problem is you don't know what you don't know.  If you start with a full custom gun, you are buying something someone else thinks is right, and you may well end up not liking it.  

 

I did just what I'm advising you to do.  I started with the CZ TS that I used for Limited.  I trialed and errored it for a year.  I even built an Open upper for it.  By the time I had finished the trial and error, I had spent a great deal of money and still did not have the Open gun I wanted.  So I went shopping for a good used gun.  I ended up with a full custom 2011 that ran perfectly.  I'm definitely not new to 1911s, so I pretty much knew what I wanted.  I had to make two minor tweaks, because I didn't like the slide stop or the mag release.  After shooting it for a year, there are a few things I would do differently on a new gun.  Now that I've learned what they are, I'll incorporate them in the 2011 build I'm just starting.

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One thing is, don't neglect the total cost of operation to include accessories.  What is nice about the 2011 frame is that it is like a racing car.  The performance is basically the best that you can get...when it works.  And even the most reliable race cars spend a lot of time in the garage getting tuned up and waiting for parts.  Then there is all of the "testing" needed every time a new spring is installed and needs to get broken in, or if you experience an issue and then have to experiment with "which of these 12 parts needs to be tuned or replaced".  A lot of trips to the range which are not for the purpose of practicing my shooting fundamentals, and instead testing to see if the pistol now functions reliably.

 

I don't want to talk you out of it, just that there are some definite considerations.  All things that I read online and said to myself, "that won't be a big deal" or, "I don't mind that" before I purchased my 2011.  Now, with all of the money that I have put into the gun, specialized tools, repair parts, upgrade parts, magazines, magazine parts, tools for tuning the magazines, magazine pouches... a never ending list.

 

I think back to the days of my Production gun which literally worked out of the box, changed the sights and that was it.  I could throw it in the safe after a match and not take it out until the next match and be confident that I would be able to shoot the match without first having to test fire and tune the gun.

 

It is kind of like trying to build the lightest AR possible.  The price starts to skyrocket and the law of diminishing returns is in full effect.  Just because you spent four times as much as a production gun doesn't mean that the performance is 4x.

Edited by yosturm
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2 hours ago, zzt said:

Well, you might try buying a good used 2011, custom or otherwise, and shoot it for a season.  You will be able to get most of your money back later.  Since you don't shoot a 2011 you will not be familiar with them.  You don't want to "upgrade" in 2-3 months, but the problem is you don't know what you don't know.  If you start with a full custom gun, you are buying something someone else thinks is right, and you may well end up not liking it.  

 

I did just what I'm advising you to do.  I started with the CZ TS that I used for Limited.  I trialed and errored it for a year.  I even built an Open upper for it.  By the time I had finished the trial and error, I had spent a great deal of money and still did not have the Open gun I wanted.  So I went shopping for a good used gun.  I ended up with a full custom 2011 that ran perfectly.  I'm definitely not new to 1911s, so I pretty much knew what I wanted.  I had to make two minor tweaks, because I didn't like the slide stop or the mag release.  After shooting it for a year, there are a few things I would do differently on a new gun.  Now that I've learned what they are, I'll incorporate them in the 2011 build I'm just starting.

I think you said what I am getting at.  Did that with bolt guns and put money into the savages and 700s that I never got back.  I'm not sure what I don't like on a 2011.   I've shot my cz enough to know what I'd like to change.   I guess I'm looking to try something new.  I've shot 1911 enough to get a general idea but think I'm gonna skip the custom.   Which is why I think I wanted the SPS at first to see what I liked and if I liked it.  Now I'm thinking an Atlas titan or ck that's Already built shoot it and go from there.   

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1 hour ago, yosturm said:

One thing is, don't neglect the total cost of operation to include accessories.  What is nice about the 2011 frame is that it is like a racing car.  The performance is basically the best that you can get...when it works.  And even the most reliable race cars spend a lot of time in the garage getting tuned up and waiting for parts.  Then there is all of the "testing" needed every time a new spring is installed and needs to get broken in, or if you experience an issue and then have to experiment with "which of these 12 parts needs to be tuned or replaced".  A lot of trips to the range which are not for the purpose of practicing my shooting fundamentals, and instead testing to see if the pistol now functions reliably.

 

I don't want to talk you out of it, just that there are some definite considerations.  All things that I read online and said to myself, "that won't be a big deal" or, "I don't mind that" before I purchased my 2011.  Now, with all of the money that I have put into the gun, specialized tools, repair parts, upgrade parts, magazines, magazine parts, tools for tuning the magazines, magazine pouches... a never ending list.

 

I think back to the days of my Production gun which literally worked out of the box, changed the sights and that was it.  I could throw it in the safe after a match and not take it out until the next match and be confident that I would be able to shoot the match without first having to test fire and tune the gun.

 

It is kind of like trying to build the lightest AR possible.  The price starts to skyrocket and the law of diminishing returns is in full effect.  Just because you spent four times as much as a production gun doesn't mean that the performance is 4x.

Always good to know.   I've read the magazines van be an issue but you've got a point with changes and testing that I didn't think much about.   But I've read that atlas and ck are both extremely helpful should you encounter a problem. 

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a great way to go is get the brazos HP edge (like one of my STI's).  you get a great platform, and a little personal TLC to make sure it works great before you get it.  get a 4 pak of their tuned mags and you are GTG.

 

dawson used to offer a similar pkg (supertune) but don't do that anymore from what i hear.  i have their supertuned Eagle and that is great also.  they do CRP but that is just bolt on parts.

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If this is a 3gun specific gun, I'd stick with a tuned edge from Brazos or another reputable smith.  Not sure I'd feel at ease with throwing a full custom gun in a drop barrel.  Biggest thing you should be looking for is reliability, and since it will be a 9mm there will be little gains in terms of recoil management if you throw more money at it.

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I'm a bit in the other camp. 

 

You have stated you have enough coin that the cost is not really a factor. 

 

With that in mind I'd skip the sti part of the process. 

 

Its true that without sjooting a 2011 for a while you won't know what features you like. 

 

Some are easy to change on an existing gun. Mag button, thumb safety etc. but I don't see the point in going straight to a $5,000 svi, wait 14mths then realise you prefer a single undercut to double or you prefer traditional grip shape to their ergo shape. That stuff is not cheap or easy to change. 

 

So i think going for an atlas or ck is a good middle ground. Both are a known quantity and both hold value fairly well. 

 

I have 2 ck opens and I'm happy with them. 

 

I think the atlas looks looks slightly nicer again but it does cost a bit more and have a slightly longer wait time. 

 

I think either would  be a good choice. Both come with pvd finishes which will hold up well to being thrown in dump buckets. :)

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I have 3 sti pistols that have all been problem free, 2 where tuned by brazos and 1 factory dvc. I have upgraded the grips on all 3. I have found my Brazos hp edge with a pt evo grip is my fastest and smoothest shooting. My recommendation would be a brazos hp edge and don't look back. 

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17 hours ago, speedracer08 said:

I have 3 sti pistols that have all been problem free, 2 where tuned by brazos and 1 factory dvc. I have upgraded the grips on all 3. I have found my Brazos hp edge with a pt evo grip is my fastest and smoothest shooting. My recommendation would be a brazos hp edge and don't look back. 

 

Thanks but already bought the CK Arms Thunder.  

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