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Double action problem Stk ll


zombywoof

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I'm having problems light off Winchester primers in double action.

 

Primers seated tight on clean pockets, Good polish job, Titan, Bolo, one piece sear, extended FPB,  PDO FP spring, heavy FP, PD 15.5 hammer spring, Xtreme trigger.

 

I'm getting 30-40% non fire on first pull, fires on second pull. This usually means primers not seated. I have them crushed and then check them with a hand primer.  I've removed the FPB and get the same results. I kep going up in hammer spring strength and get the same results.

 

Problem #2, might be related

 

I'm getting firing pin drag marks on the primer. I've tried all combinations of original FP, heavy FP with PDO spring, stock spring and Xtreme light spring. I can't figure it out.

 

Also have an extra power extractor spring.

 

 

 

primer.jpg

Edited by zombywoof
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You didn't list what sear you are running either, if you aren't running a one piece I would definitely get one. It might fix the problem.. you should be able to light those primers with ease with a 15.5lb hammer spring.

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Just now, MacLethal said:

You didn't list what sear you are running either, if you aren't running a one piece I would definitely get one. It might fix the problem.. you should be able to light those primers with ease with a 15.5lb hammer spring.

Yes I am. Late edit. Thanks

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curious, I'm lighting them off fine with extreme hammer spring light extreme hammer extreme firing pin spring and patriot defense firing pin. I have a 2 piece sear as well. very surprising your gun with the 15lb hammer spring is having issues could there be an obstruction inside?

Sent from my SM-N930F using Tapatalk

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I was having the same issues he is having minus the firing pin dragging and it was the trigger bar plunger spring.. if it's too light, it doesn't push up hard enough on the trigger bar causing the hammer to fall earlier than it should in DA.

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Hmmm....

I'm running the Patriot Defense firing pin, firing pin spring, Bolo, 13lb hammer spring, trigger return spring, and reduced power sear spring.. then I'm running the titan hammer, polished the crap out of everything, and an extreme one piece sear. Been 100% reliable for me.

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what about poor fitment on the firing pin block causing an uneven projection of the firing pin when the hammer hits it? having to fit the fpb could have had a burr or something. Possible bent firing pin maybe as well?

Sent from my SM-N930F using Tapatalk

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2 hours ago, zombywoof said:

Putting the stock trigger bar spring in made no difference is the pencil test.

 

Test it with live ammo and the stock plunger spring anyway. This has fixed more light-striking guns than anything else.

 

My gun's contents have been posted often enough you probably know what's in it. It needs an EGD Medium to cook off CCIs, but Winchester primers run through it flawlessly on a 13# PD hammer spring.

Edited by MemphisMechanic
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He said he removed the FPB already and didn't make a difference, and went back and forth between stock FP and aftermarket. I still would pull your pin again and remove your spring and see if the pin freely falls through the pin hole in the frame, also is this a new gun? older gun? was is shooting normal before mods? What mods did you do when it changed and won't light off the win primers. I'm running a small frame bone stock with a full polish job and a PD 15.5 hammer spring is my only mod and it kicks off CCI primers DA with no problems, something is seriously wrong with your set up. Is your hammer spring color pink? 

Edited by 1991a1colt
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I just thought of something, what length are you running your ammo? If you got lucky enough to get one of the out of spec barrels that could be a problem.. first hit strikes the primer but not hard enough to light it because the round is too long pushing it farther into the chamber.. then it goes off the second whack.. worth a shot..

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I can  think of several things. 

 

1) the over travel screw could be too tight (limiting) ....remove it from the trigger completely.  it could be allowing the hammer 1/2 cock to hit the sear .

 

2) the firing pin channel  might be (probably is!) Rough as heck. Remove the extractor and polish it. Especially after the FPB hole.

 

3) the hammer can be rubbing the frame. Inspect. Polish both hammer and the slot in the frame

 

4) the firing pin keeper (back plate) can be binding the FP. Bevel the slide side of the hole and polish it.

 

5) the extractor can be binding the firing pin. FILE the curve that is on the  inside of the slide, polish it mirror bright.

 

6) the firing pin hole could have a burr. Inspect and correct.

 

7) if the chamber is not reamed,  the rounds can be sticking and not going in fully. Load shorter.  (pass the plunk, thunk, spin, dump test)

 

8) the rounds can be too fat and not chambering. Diet and exercise...or lee undersize die.

 

9) there could be a hang up with the slide not chambering completely.  detail strip the gun, add polishing compound to the rails (both sides). Rack 100 times pushing down HARD. Repeat pulling up.

 

10) the barrel could be ill fit to the slide. Inspect the lugs on barrel and slide for edge wear and slivers of metal. Barrel should (no spring) easily slide back and lock in tight.

 

There's probably more, but that's all off the top of my head.

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20 hours ago, johnbu said:

I can  think of several things. 

 

1) the over travel screw could be too tight (limiting) ....remove it from the trigger completely.  it could be allowing the hammer 1/2 cock to hit the sear .

Removed over travel screw

 

2) the firing pin channel  might be (probably is!) Rough as heck. Remove the extractor and polish it. Especially after the FPB hole.

Channel is polished, FP hole has large countersink.

 

3) the hammer can be rubbing the frame. Inspect. Polish both hammer and the slot in the frame

Hammer is polished. I already hit the frame and edges.

 

4) the firing pin keeper (back plate) can be binding the FP. Bevel the slide side of the hole and polish it.

Back plate was countersunk. I polished the hole and end of FP.

 

5) the extractor can be binding the firing pin. FILE the curve that is on the  inside of the slide, polish it mirror bright.

I found a rub mark where you indicated and filed a flat on it.

 

6) the firing pin hole could have a burr. Inspect and correct.

I ran some 800 grit lapping compound through hole, felt some slight resistance.

 

7) if the chamber is not reamed,  the rounds can be sticking and not going in fully. Load shorter.  (pass the plunk, thunk, spin, dump test)

Forgot to say I had PD ream the barrel. Bayou 147 easily plunk at 1.155"

 

8) the rounds can be too fat and not chambering. Diet and exercise...or lee undersize die.

Bayou's measure .3565"

 

9) there could be a hang up with the slide not chambering completely.  detail strip the gun, add polishing compound to the rails (both sides). Rack 100 times pushing down HARD. Repeat pulling up.

Polished the rails, slide falls off with a slight tip.

 

10) the barrel could be ill fit to the slide. Inspect the lugs on barrel and slide for edge wear and slivers of metal. Barrel should (no spring) easily slide back and lock in tight.

Barrel locks in tight. Seems fine.

 

There's probably more, but that's all off the top of my head.

 

 

I don't see any difference in the pencil test. I ran a bunch of primer only cases and they all went bang in DA. I will report back when I have time to run a bunch DA only. Thank you so much for the help.

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1 hour ago, zombywoof said:

 

 

8) the rounds can be too fat and not chambering. Diet and exercise...or lee undersize die.

Bayou's measure .3565"

 

147's can bulge the case because they sit deeper in the brass.  some brass is thicker and then it bulges when long bullets are seated. Do the plunk, spin, thump it (press the round hard with a finger) and it should dump out.

A "Hundo case guage" from ben stoeger shop is ideal for checking ammo.

Next range visit, actually sit with the barrel in hand and test each round. If any fail to dump out, separate them and da fire them.  (odds are some will fail 1st da strike).

 

Good luck with the hunt!

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3 hours ago, zombywoof said:

 

I don't see any difference in the pencil test. 

 

Pencil tests are almost hilariously imprecise indicators of what your gun will do in live fire. We only use them for lack of a better option.

 

When working with a gun that won't function reliably, don't rely on pencil tests to indicate something so small - even changing hammer springs to something else with the same pencil launch height often actually changes DA reliability in live fire.

 

Rely on live fire testing only.

 

Edited by MemphisMechanic
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  • 2 weeks later...

UPDATE;

 

I did all the things in my reply to johnbu. I also shortened the OAL .015". Good plunk and spin. I'm still getting unreliable ignition with Win primers on double action. Since I only have around 1000 rounds through the gun, I'm going to run the 15.5 PD hammer spring for a while and re-evaluate. I'm getting around 6lb 3oz DA so it's only a few ounces more than the 14 PD spring. I'll see what happens.

 

Thank you for the help everyone.

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Oddly enough,  you could be too deep with the primers.

 

There is a point where it goes from deep to damaged.  if the primer anvil (that do-hiky inside the primer) is deformed during the seating process, it can dislodge the compound and create a dud.

 

Not saying you are there ...but your gun is sounding like it's in good order. Very little outside of the ammo is left !

 

Where are the primer dimples? And what do they look like (single strike, non-fire)?

 

Keep after it and it will get solved, i guarantee it! **

 

 

 

 

** or I'll buy the gun for a dollar.

 

Lol.

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