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New wall rule


Sarge

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1 hour ago, bret said:

We will now need tape measures in our range bag, if the wall is 68 7/8" or less, we can shoot over it.

 

that works for me. that is so low that the stage designer/builder is bound to notice it and address it in the wsb if required.

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This seems like one of those things that should have been the rule from the start.  

 

99.7% of the time, stage designers don't intend for walls to be shot over by the .0002% of USPSA shooters that are actually capable of doing so.  So why not have the default as ground to infinity unless otherwise stipulated rather than the other way around.

Edited by d_striker
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9 minutes ago, d_striker said:

99.7% of the time, stage designers don't intend for walls to be shot over by the .0002% of USPSA shooters that are actually capable of doing so.  So why not have the default as ground to infinity unless otherwise stipulated rather than the other way around.

 

I think you should send that to Troy... 

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3 hours ago, rowdyb said:

this seems silly to me to have to delineate this and seemingly every little thing.

 

I think most people would find it silly that one individual that is 6'6" can shoot over walls and eliminate other shooting positions such as going prone just because the WSB doesn't state "ground to infinity."

 

It's much easier for a stage designer to specify that a wall goes from the "ground to height constructed" if they want to allow people to shoot over it rather than every WSB state "ground to infinity" to prevent a couple of tall people from being able to game a stage.

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holy crap, what a bad rule change.

 

I'll stop at the hardware store this week and add a tape measure to my range bag. Maybe EGW can sell an official measuring stick.

 

What if both ends of the wall at the supports are 6' but it's 5'6" in the middle, or the wall is crooked and crosses the 5'9" line somewhere in the middle? Do I have to throw out a stage w/ a wall that starts at 5'10" but settles 2" into the mud, or gets a couple inches of stone tossed under?  Can I get a stage tossed I don't like by stepping on the supports and sinking it into the mud?

 

either as built, or to infinity... I don't care, but don't make me measure! :wacko: And if you are going to make me measure, be clear about it.

 

-rvb

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So I guess I just add 'Rule 2.2.3.3 applies'  to all the stage briefing templates.  The designer can cross it out as needed.

 

Or can I have it written at the bottom in very tiny print?

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3 minutes ago, frgood said:

So I guess I just add 'Rule 2.2.3.3 applies'  to all the stage briefing templates.  The designer can cross it out as needed.

 

Or can I have it written at the bottom in very tiny print?

 

what does that accomplish?

 

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I'll admit I was being a bit snarky, It was a rough agreement of  with d_strker,

 

On 4/13/2017 at 7:31 PM, d_striker said:

This seems like one of those things that should have been the rule from the start.  

 

99.7% of the time, stage designers don't intend for walls to be shot over by the .0002% of USPSA shooters that are actually capable of doing so.  So why not have the default as ground to infinity unless otherwise stipulated rather than the other way around.

 

To quote: "Any barrier less than 6 feet tall (-3 inch variation) specified as extending to infinity must be clearly identified in the WSB and marked accordingly, "

 

I am sure we can identify and list quite a few scenarios regarding the choice of '6 feet'. However, barring the bulld of any type of riser 6 feet seem a little high for the threshold. perhaps 4 or 5 feet would make more sense. as that allows shooting over walls by design and accommodates most heights. this threshold does favor a select few and so rings as an odd height threshold.

 

 

 

 

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24 minutes ago, frgood said:

I'll admit I was being a bit snarky, It was a rough agreement of  with d_strker,

 

 

To quote: "Any barrier less than 6 feet tall (-3 inch variation) specified as extending to infinity must be clearly identified in the WSB and marked accordingly, "

 

I am sure we can identify and list quite a few scenarios regarding the choice of '6 feet'. However, barring the bulld of any type of riser 6 feet seem a little high for the threshold. perhaps 4 or 5 feet would make more sense. as that allows shooting over walls by design and accommodates most heights. this threshold does favor a select few and so rings as an odd height threshold.

 

 

 

 

I'm guessing they chose 6' as most walls average 6'?  I've never actually measured our walls but I would guess they are close to 6.  I agree that 5' would probably have been a better number.  No one would put in a 5' vision barrier meant to be shot over in a match as there are many competitors that simply wouldn't be physically able to shoot over it.  

 

I think NROI had to specify some height, though, as we wouldn't want a single barrel or other type of vision barrier for a lay down target to go to infinity.  And we wouldn't want to list these types of vision barriers as going to height constructed in every WSB.  

 

To me it seems like they are killing two birds with one stone on the 6' requirement.  It seems like it is meant to make all of the walls that most clubs use default to infinity.  If they didn't specify a height, we would all have to specify all of the barriers we only wanted to go to height constructed in the WSB which would just create more brain damage than before.

 

 

Edited by d_striker
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Does this rule include barrel walls.  What about a single barrel at the end of a wall of stacked barrels.  I ask because last month when I was considering shooting over a stack of barrels, I asked about the legality of doing that.  The MD said no and inserted the "infinity" clause into the WSB and removed the single barrel at the other end of the wall.  BTW...a stack of 2 barrels is going to be very close to the 69" limit for this rule.

Edited by nuidad
Info about barrel height
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20 hours ago, nuidad said:

Does this rule include barrel walls.  What about a single barrel at the end of a wall of stacked barrels.  I ask because last month when I was considering shooting over a stack of barrels, I asked about the legality of doing that.  The MD said no and inserted the "infinity" clause into the WSB and removed the single barrel at the other end of the wall.  BTW...a stack of 2 barrels is going to be very close to the 69" limit for this rule.

 

I misread that at first.  So you're talking about a single barrel at the end of a bunch of double stacked barrels.  

 

That's a good question.  IMO, even if the barrel is part of a "wall" of double stacked barrels, that portion of the "wall" is not 6' so I would say shooting over it is legal.  Just my opinion though.

 

2.2.3.3 is amended to read: Unless otherwise specified in the written stage briefing, all such barriers, walls, vision barriers, snow fence barriers and other constructs will be considered to go from the ground to infinity, provided said barrier is at least 6 feet

Edited by d_striker
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1 hour ago, d_striker said:

 

I misread that at first.  So you're talking about a single barrel at the end of a bunch of double stacked barrels.  

 

That's a good question.  IMO, even if the barrel is part of a "wall" of double stacked barrels, that portion of the "wall" is not 6' so I would say shooting over it is legal.  Just my opinion though.

 

2.2.3.3 is amended to read: Unless otherwise specified in the written stage briefing, all such barriers, walls, vision barriers, snow fence barriers and other constructs will be considered to go from the ground to infinity, provided said barrier is at least 6 feet

I think I get it.  If it's less than 6 feet, one can shoot over it unless otherwise specified in the WSB.  Sounds simple enough.  Thanks

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10 hours ago, nuidad said:

I think I get it.  If it's less than 6 feet, one can shoot over it unless otherwise specified in the WSB.  Sounds simple enough.  Thanks

 

 

 Correct. 69" to be exact. (6ft - 3"=69")

 

Before this amendment, the rule was that all walls go from the ground to height constructed unless otherwise specified.  

 

Now the default is from ground to infinity on anything at least 69" unless otherwise specified. 

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As long as it is stated in the WSB, what's the big deal. If at 6 feet or higher goes to infinity. if lower barrier stops at 4-5 feet that's it. Quote from nuidad:

2.2.3.3 is amended to read: Unless otherwise specified in the written stage briefing, all such barriers, walls, vision barriers, snow fence barriers and other constructs will be considered to go from the ground to infinity, provided said barrier is at least 6 feet

So lets move on IMVHO

Thanks

Mike

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On April 17, 2017 at 3:28 PM, nuidad said:

Does this rule include barrel walls.  What about a single barrel at the end of a wall of stacked barrels.  I ask because last month when I was considering shooting over a stack of barrels, I asked about the legality of doing that.  The MD said no and inserted the "infinity" clause into the WSB and removed the single barrel at the other end of the wall.  BTW...a stack of 2 barrels is going to be very close to the 69" limit for this rule.

Barrels are barrels, not walls. 

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38 minutes ago, Mhall said:

Barrels are barrels, not walls. 

 

Please reread 2.2.3.3 (old version AND the new, per the NROI Ruling) and explain to me how barrels would NOT qualify as "all such barriers, walls, vision barriers and snow fence barriers [...]"

 

It will not matter whether it is a snow fence, wooden wall, pile of tires, or even barrels ... They are ALL subject to the rule - per the rule.

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