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9mm troubles


RWatts

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I'm hoping you guys will have seen this before and be able to help me out.

im reloading on a Dillon 650 with Dillon dies. The only thing I changed was the powder funnel to the one provided with the mr bullet feeder.

 

you can see where the base of the bullet is making a visible line on the outside of the brass. These rounds will not chamber. 

 

Range Brass various head stamps

buyou 135 bullets

image1.JPG

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Where is it getting stuck in the case gauge?

How much crimp are you running? It looks to be a BUNCH but that shouldn't affect the round clambering I would think.

I loaded some Berrys 147's and they Jd a severe coke bottle shape. They all shot though.


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A better picture might help

 

what is bullet diameter....measured ?

 

what is case length ... Measured?

 

im assuming reloads functioned prior to powder funnel change?

 

how much are you belling case?

 

dillon dies all stations?

 

 

 

something definitely is wrong....

 

 

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The reloads worked fine with this powder funnel. If something has changed I'm not sure what it is.

 

the bullets measure .358

 

the cases range from .740 to .746

 

the bell is set for the shorter cases, so the longer ones are probably getting hit pretty hard, but seem to get pressed into shape at the crimp stage.

 

you can see the bulge better in this pic. It's only on one side, almost like the bullet is cockeyed.....

 

 

image1.JPG

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Try this: Loosen the lock ring on the powder measure, and on the bullet seat die. With a fired case in station 1, a sized case in station 2, a flared case in 3 and a seated bullet in station 4, pull the handle down. With the handle down, and the cases up in the various dies, tighten the die lock rings. This centers the die in the toolhead.

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0.358" seems a bit big to work in 9mm without having to walk a very fine line in the reloading process.  0.355" and 0.356" fine.  Maybe 0.357" with lead.  But 0.358" is a lot.  I think your new loading procedures have caused you to just cross that fine line.  I'm sure some extra attention to detail could get you back to where you were, but why?

 

Maybe the MBF 0.355" designed funnel is causing uneven bullet seating from the excessive squeeze between the case and bullet?  I used to get this more often when I loaded 9mm on a single stage with so little flare that I didn't have to crimp.

Edited by theWacoKid
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Just throwing out another suggestion as I had a similar problem on my 650 with Dillon dies. I had the bullet seating die set up with the flat point stem instead of the round point side. I would get rounds that looked exactly like the one in your picture. Switched it to the round side down and stopped having the problem.

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10 minutes ago, BombSquad said:

Just throwing out another suggestion as I had a similar problem on my 650 with Dillon dies. I had the bullet seating die set up with the flat point stem instead of the round point side. I would get rounds that looked exactly like the one in your picture. Switched it to the round side down and stopped having the problem.

+1..It appears that something is causing the bullet to seat crooked.

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I had veru similar troubles seating 9mm on my 550. Two things completely resolved the problem: 1. Ensuring the Allen head screw that keeps the shellplate bolt in place is properly tightened, 2. I added a Redding Competition Seating die. I went from 5% case gauge rejection rate to 0%.

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I am currently having the same problem in 9mm going through my Super 1050.

I have changed the sizing die from Dillon to a UD. I have disabled the de-crimp hold down.

However, I think the problem lies in the bullet seater. The Dillon seating die has an interchangeable insert (one end round nose, the other end for everything else), but has an unusual amount of excess room around where the stem contacts the tip of the bullet. This, I believe, is allowing the bullet to move off-center when being seated. This doesn't happen every time, mind you, but certainly often enough to cause a problem.

To solve this I have ordered a Redding Pro seater with a more compatible bullet seating stem.

Mike.

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2 hours ago, MikieM said:

I am currently having the same problem in 9mm going through my Super 1050.

I have changed the sizing die from Dillon to a UD. I have disabled the de-crimp hold down.

However, I think the problem lies in the bullet seater. The Dillon seating die has an interchangeable insert (one end round nose, the other end for everything else), but has an unusual amount of excess room around where the stem contacts the tip of the bullet. This, I believe, is allowing the bullet to move off-center when being seated. This doesn't happen every time, mind you, but certainly often enough to cause a problem.

To solve this I have ordered a Redding Pro seater with a more compatible bullet seating stem.

Mike.

 

This is what I was referring to above. Have you tried flipping the insert to the round nose side? I use it even on Bayou flat point 147s and resolved this issue. Can't go wrong with the Redding die regardless, but might be able to salvage using the Dillon die. I have 0 issues now.

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9 hours ago, BombSquad said:

 

This is what I was referring to above. Have you tried flipping the insert to the round nose side? I use it even on Bayou flat point 147s and resolved this issue. Can't go wrong with the Redding die regardless, but might be able to salvage using the Dillon die. I have 0 issues now.

 

I did, yes.

I'm using Precision Delta JHPs, but the cone end of the stem is still too big. I'm hoping the Redding solves the problem.

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I check he seating stem and I am already using the pointed end. I did notice there is quite a bit of access room. I also tried Dillion's suggestions of allowing the cases to center the dies. I will load some over the weekend and report back.

 

if it doesn't fix it, I'll order the Redding die.

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5 hours ago, RWatts said:

I check he seating stem and I am already using the pointed end. I did notice there is quite a bit of access room. I also tried Dillion's suggestions of allowing the cases to center the dies. I will load some over the weekend and report back.

 

if it doesn't fix it, I'll order the Redding die.

 

Hold the phone.

I was doing some checking and noticed that when the lower de-crimp rod was moved into the empty primer pocket It would cause the shell plate to flex, ever so slightly. I have a Fast and Friendly hardened shell plate so you can imagine how much flex might be in a stock Dillon.

Anyway, I removed the entire bottom half of the primer pocket de-crimp and it seems to have solved the problem.

I'm still going to use the Redding seater because it fits the bullet nose better.

In my case the de-crimp station is unnecessary because I buy only un-crimped brass. Also, since the de-crimp is so near the priming station, I can't help but think the primers will seat a tiny bit easier.

You know, If I wasn't doing all this crap I could be Crappie fishing. :rolleyes: 

Edited by MikieM
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Another thought.

Poor quality brass could also be the culprit. If the walls of the case mouth are too thin it may not fully support the bullet enough to keep it straight as the bullet is being seated.

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3 hours ago, MikieM said:

Another thought.

Poor quality brass could also be the culprit. If the walls of the case mouth are too thin it may not fully support the bullet enough to keep it straight as the bullet is being seated.

This^^^. I always have the same problem with CBC brass. Crap. If I load the exact same bullet (MG147gr) with starline or other headstamp brass,I have no problems. My loads with CBC look exactly like yours and don't case gauge. Thin walled brass gets pushed down by the bullet and bulges. 

Pic on the top is CBC. Pic on the bottom is Starline. Same loading run. All CBC looked like this. 

bullet4.jpg

bullet5.jpg

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Yep. Some of mine looked the same way. And they wouldn't plunk.

My preference is once fired Winchester for local matches. Junk brass is okay for practice, but I plunk it just to avoid the aggravation of not working when at the range.

I think Mr. RWatts should check his brass first, then move on to the other stuff if the brass is good to go. 

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I use .358 Precision coated bullets and don't have any problems with them.  They do "wasp waist" the case but I like that because it really prevents bullet set back.  You could always use a Lee seating die and send the seater portion of the die and a bullet to Lee and they will make it match the bullet tip exactly.

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  • 2 weeks later...

You're seating the bullets crooked. I had that problem with RCBS & Redding seating dies, but cleared everything up by switching to a Hornady New Dimension seating die. This die has an alignment sleeve that the others don't have, and now I use them for all handgun calibers.

 

I don't mean to sound like a Hornady cheerleader, I'm thoroughly pissed at the company for past issues, and now only buy their dies.

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That is what I call a crooked bullet, as the bulge does not appear to go all the way around--if it does, then ignore this. It isn't caused by an oversized bullet, but by a case that wasn't properly expanded (not talking case mouth flare) and a seating stem that is a poor fit. If you had a Lee seater, I would say to order a custom seating stem that doesn't touch the meplat and touches the bullet further down the ogive. If your shell plate is flexing, that just adds to the problem.

IF nothing else, if you place the bullet on the case and push down lightly as you make sure the bullet is "square" to the case, can you pick up the case/bullet assembly and turn it upside down and NOT have the bullet fall out? If not, you might be able to increase the case mouth flare and hold the bullet better.

 

Other than that:

The solution to chambering problems is to determine the cause:

Take the barrel out of the gun. Drop rounds in until you find one that won't chamber. Take that round and "paint" the bullet and case black with Magic Marker or other marker. Drop round in barrel (or gage) and rotate it back-and-forth a few times.

Remove and inspect the round:

1) Scratches in the ink on bullet--COL is too long

2) Scratches in the ink on edge of the case mouth--insufficient crimp

3) Scratches in the ink just below the case mouth--too much crimp, you're crushing the case

4) Scratches in the ink on case at base of bullet--bullet seated crooked due to insufficient case expansion (not case mouth flare) or improper seating stem fit (this is what I see, but I could be seeing wrong)

5) Scratches in the ink on case just above extractor groove--case bulge not removed during sizing. May need a bulge buster.

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