Extractors

[djbb98]

What is the big difference between a aftec and a standard extractor. I have the standard and am having a second slide build for my gun and I want to know if the aftecs are really worth the money or just a commedety.

[Sarge]

Aftec s have small springs to adjust tension as opposed to just a bend

[ltdmstr]

What he said.  Basically with a standard extractor the metal fatigues over time.  This usually results in feeding and/or extraction problems.   Aftec doesn't wear out because it's spring loaded.  Kinda like the extractor in most "modern" pistols.

[drewbeck]

I've had 3 of the $26 dollar spring cups break on me... Jury is still out for me on the issue of whether they are better or not.  I've only broken one regular extractor.  I do think they are way easier to get working correctly to begin with but they are still a consumable in my book

[djbb98]

So is the extra $50 expense of the aftec really worth it?

[ltdmstr]

1 hour ago, drewbeck said:

I've had 3 of the $26 dollar spring cups break on me... Jury is still out for me on the issue of whether they are better or not.  I've only broken one regular extractor.  I do think they are way easier to get working correctly to begin with but they are still a consumable in my book

 

Seems like an odd thing to break.  Especially 3x.  I've put aftecs in dozens of guns and never had one issue other than losing a spring every now and then (I have plenty of spares!).

[pjb45]

Springs do wear out but they come with extra.  After 10 years and a gallion rounds the Aftec failed but it gave me plenty of warning.  I was too stupid to heed its call.

[donnyglock]

I much prefer the aftec. I've built many guns and only had one that had an issue. It cracked and was replaced under warranty. The rest just keep on truckin. 

[BeerBaron]

the difference is standard extractors are made of spring steel and use the bend to provide tension. as they are used the tension backs off and they need to be re-tensioned. like all springs after a while they wear out and need to be replaced. 

 

the aftec is different in operation. it's a solid piece of steel and does not bend for tension. it pivots in the middle on 2 coil springs. once again springs wear out but in there aftec case you replace two springs that cost around $1.25 each. In regular extractors the whole part IS the spring so it's $40 or whatever the particular one costs.

 

They do last a very long time compared to regular extractors but you do need to periodically replace the springs. I like them. In my 5 1911/2011's I have 2 Aftecs and 3 conventional. I'll soon be adding one more aftec and eventually may convert them all over to aftec.

 

btw what did you mean by commedety? commodity? just curious as I can't figure out what you meant and it's driving me nuts!

[Dr Mitch]

Aftecs are spotty and standard are extrememly reliable.  Aftecs wear out, Aftecs break.  Listen carefully, and you'll hear many more negative stories about Aftecs than standard extractors.

 

I find that standard extractors are generally very poorly tuned, if at all, hence the market for a quality-optional product like the Aftec.  My Limited gun has 30,000 rounds on a standard STI extractor, tuned once by me.  A local Open GM had a new Aftec fail at match on Sunday.  He explained that he should have been using two springs, and DNF'd the match.  I listened and ignored.  Aftecs are spotty.  I would never use one. 

[drewbeck]

4 hours ago, ltdmstr said:

 

Seems like an odd thing to break.  Especially 3x.  I've put aftecs in dozens of guns and never had one issue other than losing a spring every now and then (I have plenty of spares!).

 

Agreed, it seems odd but they broke in 3 different slides so it's even more random.  It's sucks paying $26 for that part and even worse when you order a spare and the wife sees the $60 receipt for them! 

 

My sti regular went a long time and then the hook just sheared off never lost tension or had issues.

 

who knows, I now carry a spare spring cup as well as a tuned regular extractor with me in my bag

[BeerBaron]

7 hours ago, Dr Mitch said:

Aftecs are spotty and standard are extrememly reliable.  Aftecs wear out, Aftecs break.  Listen carefully, and you'll hear many more negative stories about Aftecs than standard extractors.

 

I find that standard extractors are generally very poorly tuned, if at all, hence the market for a quality-optional product like the Aftec.  My Limited gun has 30,000 rounds on a standard STI extractor, tuned once by me.  A local Open GM had a new Aftec fail at match on Sunday.  He explained that he should have been using two springs, and DNF'd the match.  I listened and ignored.  Aftecs are spotty.  I would never use one. 

 

to be fair I see plenty of dudes struggling with various extractor related issues with conventional extractors too. 

 

Just like a regular extractor the problems with aftecs usually are related to fitting/tuning. They don't need to be tensioned but they need clearance at the firing pin stop to allow that pivot action to occur, if the back can't move enough the front can't move enough. They also need the right shape on the hook. Once setup they seem to run a very long time with just the odd spring change.

 

like drewbeck I do object to the $25 spring cup. I can't see how they should break but being prepared means I like having a spare too and it's a bit rudely priced for a little piece of steel.

 

 

[racer-x]

7 hours ago, Dr Mitch said:

Aftecs are spotty and standard are extrememly reliable.  Aftecs wear out, Aftecs break.  Listen carefully, and you'll hear many more negative stories about Aftecs than standard extractors.

 

I find that standard extractors are generally very poorly tuned, if at all, hence the market for a quality-optional product like the Aftec.  My Limited gun has 30,000 rounds on a standard STI extractor, tuned once by me.  A local Open GM had a new Aftec fail at match on Sunday.  He explained that he should have been using two springs, and DNF'd the match.  I listened and ignored.  Aftecs are spotty.  I would never use one. 

 

That's me... you  ignored !

 

I don't like to lay any blame before having a chance to dig in and figure out the root cause. 

The gun that failed me Sunday is a month old CK Thunder with the original Aftec extractor. Instructions from CK are to run it with only 1 spring installed in rear hole for around 5000 rounds, then add the second (broken in spring up front, new in back). My gun had around 1300 flawless rounds through it (still 1 spring as advised) when it just stopped extracting. No warning, done. This is the first match I haven't finished due to gun failure that I can remember. Pretty frustrating.

 

My gun failed on Sunday because the Aftec cracked (in front of the front spring hole). Zero tension. I generally run the extractor that my gunsmith installs (believes in & supports) and have had Aftecs in 3 other open guns with no failures to extract. Also have many, many more rounds down range with regular correctly tuned extractors (EGW & STI) and very few issues. Regular spring extractors do need to be re-tensioned once and in a while, but I've never had one crack and fail completely either.

 

Not sure my failure in a match was preventable, extractor tension was perfect before match. 

Its a good idea to check extractor tension whenever you detail clean your slide. Extractor should hold a cartridge on breech face with just a little effort to remove.

 

I have a spare Aftec in my range bag now;  should have been there already. 

Also, Aftec shipped me a replacement yesterday after speaking with them on the phone. Great support.

[gregdavidl]

A good quality normal extractor will last a long time if fitted and adjusted correctly.  They will loose tension over time, but can be re-tensioned occasionally and still be used.  I always had my gunsmith fit and provide extra extractors (among other parts) at the time he builds the gun, so I always have a spare to drop in if I had any doubts about the one in the gun.  My main gun has 80,000+ rounds through it and it's on it's second extractor.  It probably needs to be replaced if I was competing, but I have a new fitted spare for it.

[teros135]

On the other hand, the standard extractor that came with my custom-built Open gun would never keep its tension and had to be frequently readjusted.  Went to Aftec, working fine 20k rds later.  YMMV, of course.

Edited April 12, 2017 by teros135

[gerritm]

What is the difference between the 9/38SC Aftec and the 38super? I have an Aftec out of a 38 super with very little rounds on it and need to change out or adjust the stock one in my DVC 9mm. Starting to get a random FTE.

 

gerritm

[BeerBaron]

they are just made to suit different rim sizes. You can most likely make the super extractor work on 9mm but it may need some filling of the hook.

[frankge]

Aftecs run almost forever, have them in mine and sons limited guns. My Brazos come with it - Bob doesn't screw around. I have well over 25k rounds through it.

[CHA-LEE]

I am an avid AFTEC user. I use them in all of my 2011's and am yet to have one fail or wear out. 

 

The one thing that people assume is that they are drop in with no tuning needed. I have had to tune the extractor hook lead in shape and depth of the hook on every single one of them. This tuning isn't due to inconsistent manufacture of the AFTEC. It is due to slight variations in the slides they are installed in.

 

I also want to point out that if you can only get an AFTEC to function with only 1 spring installed then it's not tuned properly. The AFTEC is designed to use both springs.

[RaylanGivens]

13 hours ago, CHA-LEE said:

The one thing that people assume is that they are drop in with no tuning needed. I have had to tune the extractor hook lead in shape and depth of the hook on every single one of them. This tuning isn't due to inconsistent manufacture of the AFTEC. It is due to slight variations in the slides they are installed in.

 

Could you explain this is a bit more detail?

 

How do you tune the extractor hook lead in shape?  Is this a general reshaping of the hook or something specific for each slide?  I'm not sure what the "lead in shape" is...

 

When you change the depth of the hook itself, do you deepen the hook so that the end of the hook touches the brass in the bottom of the groove in the case?

[CHA-LEE]

38 minutes ago, RaylanGivens said:

 

Could you explain this is a bit more detail?

 

How do you tune the extractor hook lead in shape?  Is this a general reshaping of the hook or something specific for each slide?  I'm not sure what the "lead in shape" is...

 

When you change the depth of the hook itself, do you deepen the hook so that the end of the hook touches the brass in the bottom of the groove in the case?

 

The lead in shape of the extractor hook is the bottom portion that the rim of the case initially engages as the brass is pushed upwards on the breach face as the round is chambered. This bottom corner usually needs to be rounded and releaved so that the rim can get under the hook smoothly without binding when the brass is at an upward angle. When the round is stripped from the magazine and climbs the barrels feed ramp the rim of the case is engaging the bottom of the extractor hook at a fairly steep angle. 

 

The tip of the extractor hook usually engages the inner ring on the rim of the case and the outer portion of the rim doesn't touch the extractor. You can change the depth of the extractor hook so that it engages deeper into the case rim. This setting is more about increasing or decreasing the "pinch" tension the extractor hook has on the rim of the case. You are usually not changing this to increase or decrease the actual extractor to rim engagement depth. 

[d_striker]

Cha-Lee is seriously the Extractor Whisperer....

[RaylanGivens]

21 hours ago, CHA-LEE said:

 

The lead in shape of the extractor hook is the bottom portion that the rim of the case initially engages as the brass is pushed upwards on the breach face as the round is chambered. This bottom corner usually needs to be rounded and releaved so that the rim can get under the hook smoothly without binding when the brass is at an upward angle. When the round is stripped from the magazine and climbs the barrels feed ramp the rim of the case is engaging the bottom of the extractor hook at a fairly steep angle. 

 

The tip of the extractor hook usually engages the inner ring on the rim of the case and the outer portion of the rim doesn't touch the extractor. You can change the depth of the extractor hook so that it engages deeper into the case rim. This setting is more about increasing or decreasing the "pinch" tension the extractor hook has on the rim of the case. You are usually not changing this to increase or decrease the actual extractor to rim engagement depth. 

 

Thanks, Charlie...

 

I think I understand the first section of your reply...  You round off the bottom edge of the inner hook area and then put a small bevel on the bottom corner of the hook itself...  Like the picture below?

 

Not sure I understand your second section...  You grind on the flat area under the hook so that the hook will extend in towards the inner ring of the case?  So, the end result is to have the hook grab the case like the picture below...

[CHA-LEE]

I am not grinding the flat area under the hook. I am grinding the tip of the hook where it engages the inner ring of the brass. Your Second picture is a good example of showing the tip of the hook engaging the inner rim of the brass.

[ltdmstr]

The first photos is good.  The second photo is 100% the wrong way to set up an extractor.  The case rim should be in contact with the flat part of the extractor and the hook should not be in contact with any part of the case.