waktasz

Production division aftermarket hammer

64 posts in this topic

2 hours ago, wtturn said:

 

I don't accept the premise that the rules ARE difficult to enforce.  

 

The rules are as simple to enforce as they are to comply with.  

 

 

I disagree with this, my evidence is that after the 2014 rule book was published and the rulings were cleaned up we ran 2, national championship Production matches where having a plastic grip plug in your GLOCK was illegal, as far as I know nobody took theirs out when the rules were updated ( i know a couple GLOCK shooters that went to these matches) and nobody was bumped to open for that at either match. I emailed with DNROI about it and prior to issuing a ruling that re-allowed them he tried to use some really tortured logic to say they were allowed, when the rules clearly forbid them.

So apparently it is very hard to enforce the rules if we cant do it at the national championship.

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The reality is that there are several Production rules that are becoming obsolete or that have obvious conflicts.

 

  • No SAO's are allowed when specifically stated in the approved list, or by omission from the list, but clearly some striker-fired guns qualify as such from a mechanical standpoint.
  • App D4, 21.2b, which only allows you to modify a slide for the purpose of installing a sight.  There are some people who milled Production slides for dots for CO, but want to be able to install a cover plate back on the slide and use it for Production again.  Some think no, since the slide was not milled for installing iron sights, which are all that's allowed in Production.  But there are several approved models available with removable plates, so why restrict someone who modified a G34 or 5" PPQ over someone who bought a G24 MOS or Q5 Match later?
  • App D4, 21.3, which only allows replacement of the slide and barrel with the same length, contour and caliber as the original.  That is impossible to enforce with the availability of modular guns like the P320, or caliber conversion kits.  Maybe it makes sense to limit custom aftermarket slides that could add competitive advantage, but does it make sense for OFM conversions?  Really you are just requiring a shooter to buy another entire gun instead of just a kit.

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I don't care about purity etc. all I care about is one part of the rule book saying you can't change parts that change the outward appearance of the gun and another part saying it's ok if it changes the outward appearance of the gun.

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There is a post on the USPSA Facebook page that lends a little more light on the subject.
TMALSS it is really hard to tell what is an original factory hammer and what is an aftermarket hammer as people like CZ have a bunch of different hammers that come on the guns.  I think they got to the point they couldn't enforce it so they scrapped it.  
 
Production rules in just about any sport are really hard to enforce unless you are going to have someone with immense knowledge at the crono table.

Well said.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

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I used to think L10 was the obsolete division, just hanging on due to those couple of high-cap ban states....

but since SS and production are usually so close in the results... and it seems production rules are un-enforceable and now we are starting to allow external competition bits, maybe L10, SS, and Prod should merge into one low-cap division. 8/maj or 10/min option for all. Has to fit in the box, no comps, no optics. Who cares If it's a glock or 1911 or 2011. Sounds kinda fun. Grab a gun and go race. Mod all you want with whatever gun you want. no more handwringing over equipment rules.

 

would be differentiated from Limited due to the box and capacity.

 

-rvb

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2 minutes ago, rvb said:

maybe L10, SS, and Prod should merge into one low-cap division. 8/maj or 10/min option for all. Has to fit in the box, no comps, no optics.

I am in, I tend to look at production results so I have more to measure my SS minor runs.

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7 minutes ago, ktm300 said:

I am in, I tend to look at production results so I have more to measure my SS minor runs.

 

same here. I already know I shoot the same scores in SS minor and prod, and often at a big match you'll get a deeper field of GM's in production.

 

I would be happy with just a feature of ps that would let me choose which divisions to see in an overall. Then I could easily view just the low-cap divisions, or all the iron sight divisions, or all the pistol divisions.

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2 minutes ago, motosapiens said:

I would be happy with just a feature of ps that would let me choose which divisions to see in an overall. Then I could easily view just the low-cap divisions, or all the iron sight divisions, or all the pistol divisions.

+1

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There is nothing production about production, unless you shoot a plastic gun.

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There is nothing production about production, unless you shoot a plastic gun.

Huh? Guns aren't made of plastic.

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12 hours ago, Onepocket said:

There is nothing production about production, unless you shoot a plastic gun.

 

what a silly thing to post. lots of agencies (including mine) carry metal guns.

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Everone I know that shoots a metal gun in production change out all the internal parts, and now the external hammer. (Limited lite) Thats is what I was trying to get across. I really dont care, I beleive its the indian not the arrow. Suprising your dept carries a metal gun, what kind of LE are you?

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federal resource agency. our folks carry sigs.

 

everyone who shoots a plastic gun changes internal parts too. Since we agree none of that stuff really matters.... .who cares?

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I shoot Limited and have relatively little interest in Production.  However, Production is clearly a raging success from a competition and participation perspective.  Rules changes regarding it should be approached very cautiously, and cavalier notions about largely tearing up Appendix D.4 should be treated as presumptively impulsive and ill-advised.  

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