DeltaPoint Pro Screw Problem

[selecw]

The factory screws on my DPP have stretched, and will loosen after about 60 rounds even with blue loctite applied. I am using the DPP for Carry Optics on an SP01 with a multi optic cut from CZ Custom. 

 

I know of three other shooters in the my USPSA club with the same issue on the same gun/optic set up. 

 

Is anyone else having the same problem?

 

CZC sent me a set of replacement screws. But they are too wide for the DPP mounting holes, and I am not going to open them up to make them fit.

 

I am also not going to use red loctite as the sight has plastic components ..

 

I had an STS2 sight on the gun before the DPP and had no problems over about 5,000 rounds.

 

 

 

[BeerBaron]

perhaps leupold can supply spare screws?

[selecw]

I did ask Leupold for some replacements and also ordered some third party screws. Hopefully that will fix the problem.

[Prerunnertrd]

Just received my DPP.  Getting ready to mill the slide.  Could you let me know what works out before I get into the same mess.  Thx!

[Severian]

On 4/11/2017 at 10:25 AM, selecw said:

I did ask Leupold for some replacements and also ordered some third party screws.

 

What size third-party screws did you order? 

[selecw]

19277

I ordered these from boltdepot.com   Metric machine screws, Star drive flat head, Stainless steel A-2, 4mm x 0.7mm x 16mm

[Severian]

Thank you!

[trgt]

It seems that the slide mounted optic screws can last indefinitely on the first or second tightening, but the moment they lose the ability to stretch, they won't hold with blue loctite. Not sure how many tightenings this occurs in. I now just consider the screws a consumable and ebay them in bulk to replace basically after a few uses. This was more a problem for me original deltapoint when you had to remove optic to change battery. Now with the pro and top mounted battery I see fresh screws that are holding several thousand rounds no problem.

[zzt]

You can try a thread locker instead of Loctite.  There are several on the market that work well.  You coat the threads with goop and let it dry for 30 minutes.  Then screw in.  They stay seemingly forever.  BTW, don't put so much on that you cannot see the threads.  If you do you'll have the devil of a time getting it in.

 

BTW, I've used the same set of screws for every slide mounted dot I own and never had to replace any of them, no matter how many times I've had the dot off.  I have 5 Burris FF3s, 2 RTS2v4s and one Deltapoint Pro.

Edited May 9, 2017 by zzt

[selecw]

41 minutes ago, zzt said:

You can try a thread locker instead of Loctite.  There are several on the market that work well.  You coat the threads with goop and let it dry for 30 minutes.  Then screw in.  They stay seemingly forever.  BTW, don't put so much on that you cannot see the threads.  If you do you'll have the devil of a time getting it in.

 

BTW, I've used the same set of screws for every slide mounted dot I own and never had to replace any of them, no matter how many times I've had the dot off.  I have 5 Burris FF3s, 2 RTS2v4s and one Deltapoint Pro.

 

I was using Blue Loctite as a generic term. I actually used "Blue Permatex Thread Locker". It did not hold. I was methodical about cleaning the threads with acetone before applying it.

 

Edited May 9, 2017 by selecw
typo

[LMS]

On 5/7/2017 at 10:07 PM, selecw said:

19277

I ordered these from boltdepot.com   Metric machine screws, Star drive flat head, Stainless steel A-2, 4mm x 0.7mm x 16mm

 

I would be careful with those.   The shoulder on the screw that comes with the DPP prevents over tightening (which could compress / damage the optic housing and consequently whatever is in it).

 

I am having the same problem as others on this thread.   The folks I know that solved it used super glue or the red colored locktite, both of which are a bit too permanent for me.  I wish the threads were about .1" longer, as the tapped holes in my slide will accept that.

 

 

Edited July 16, 2017 by LMS

[selecw]

You have to be cautious with those screws for sure. I've been shooting Limited for a while now, so I'm not sure whether the screws plus blue loctite will work long term or not. No way I'm using red loctite on an optic wth plastic components. 

 

Let us know if you find a better screw.

[Butterpuc]

I recently had an issue.  I mounted my DPP to tight (no thread locker).  it caused the threads to bottom out into the slide and I ended up having to drill out the screws.  I would advise caution with this, there must be a happy medium.

 

[LMS]

Well here's what I am going to try.    

 

The threads on the screws from Leupold only extend about 0.1" into whatever the scope is mounted to.   I have the milled slide from CZ Custom, which has holes drilled a bit more than 0.25".   They are not tapped all the way, and I think they are tapered at the end since I can only screw a screw about 0.12" in right now.

 

I am going to take a flat bottom tap and go into it so that i can get 0.2" of thread into the slide (twice as much as it is now) plus due to the tap profile, there will be some resistant thread at the end of the tapped hole to dig into a little bit.  I am going to go against my own advice and use a regular screw (not the Leupold one with the shoulders), and take great care to not compress the housing while also getting down farther into the slide.   I am hoping the combo of 2x thread area, tight thread at the end of the hole, and blue locktite will do the trick.    According to my measurements, an 18mm screw should be the right length.

 

I'll let y'all know how it goes....

Edited July 17, 2017 by LMS

[selecw]

9 minutes ago, LMS said:

Well here's what I am going to try.    

 

The threads on the screws from Leupold only extend about 0.1" into whatever the scope is mounted to.   I have the milled slide from CZ Custom, which has holes drilled a bit more than 0.25".   They are not tapped all the way, and I think they are tapered at the end since I can only screw a screw about 0.12" in right now.

 

I am going to take a flat bottom tap and go into it so that i can get 0.2" of thread into the slide (twice as much as it is now) plus due to the tap profile, there will be some resistant thread at the end of the tapped hole to dig into a little bit.  I am going to go against my own advice and use a regular screw (not the Leupold one with the shoulders), and take great care to not compress the housing while also getting down farther into the slide.   I am hoping the combo of 2x thread area, tight thread at the end of the hole, and blue locktite will do the trick.    According to my measurements, an 18mm screw should be the right length.

 

I'll let y'all know how it goes....

You could always add a compressible gasket to protect the sight housing

[LMS]

Just now, selecw said:

You could always add a compressible gasket to protect the sight housing

 

 

Great idea - probably a 10 cent o-ring would do it.

[selecw]

17 hours ago, LMS said:

 

 

Great idea - probably a 10 cent o-ring would do it.

That's exactly what I was thinking

[LMS]

Update on how this is going so far.   I did tap out the holes to a greater depth.   It was harder than I thought to get the depth exactly right so that I could get some resistance a the end - I was unable to make that work, as fractions of a mm made a difference in not enough vs too much.

 

It turns out a screw length of 18mm is too short, and 20mm is just right.   It wasn't too hard to tighten to the right amount to not damage the sight housing.  I ended up not using o-rings per the discussion above with selecw.     In the end I went from 0.1" of thread contact to 0.25" of thread contact, so quite a difference at least from a mathematics standpoint.

 

If you try this, remember to clean out the hole after tapping - with air to get the chips out and with degreaser in the holes to get the tapping fluid out, and then alcohol to get the degreaser out and have the holes ready for loctite.   I used the blue for now.

 

I put 125 rds down the pipe today and it's holding well, I intend to do at least another 100 tomorrow.   250 is around when the other screws came loose so should be a good test.

Edited July 23, 2017 by LMS
fix my lousy grammar and spelling

[selecw]

16 minutes ago, LMS said:

Update on how this is going so far.   I did tap out the holes to a greater depth.   It was harder than I thought to get the depth exactly right so that could get some resistance a the end - I was unable to make that work, as fractions of a mm made a difference in not enough vs too much.

 

It turns out a screw length of 18mm length is too short, and 20mm is just right.   It wasn't too hard to tighten the right amount to not damage the sight housing.  I ended up not using o-rings per the discussion above with selecw.     In then end I went from 0.1" of thread contact to 0.25" of thread contact, so quite a difference at least from a mathematics standpoint.

 

If you try this, remember to clean out the hole after tapping - with air to get the chips out and with degreaser in the holes to get the tapping fluid out, and then alcohol to get the degreaser out and have the holes ready for loctite.   I used the blue for now.

 

I put 125 rds down the pipe today and it's holding well, I intend to do at least another 100 tomorrow.   250 is around when the other screws came loose so should be a good test.

 

Keep us posted. As you get to 250, 500, 5000 etc 

[zombywoof]

I was tired of optic screws coming loose, even with red Loctite. I have found the solution. I have the same Delta point screw problem. I use red Loctite and apply gorilla glue under the head of the screw. I get a little on the screw shaft and let it ooze out of the top of the screw head and let it dry. After thousands of rounds they stay put. It comes off easy too. 

 

My wife's Browning Buckmark optic mount screws would always come loose. No matter how clean I would get the threads, it would still come loose. Red Loctite too. I use this method and so far so good. 

[Brooke]

The screws supplied with theDPP Pro are metric as indicated in posts above. The CZC multi cut has 8-32 threads. You can but some 8-32 screws at a hardware. I had to buy screws that were too long and file them down. The other problem is that 8-32 screws won't fit through the hole in the sight. You have to carefully enlarge the hole to get the screw in. It's definitely a monumental FU because I called this to CZC's attention months ago and apparently they chose not to address the issue.

 

The good news is that once I got the right thread and got them in the sight they have not come loose. The bad news is I had your problem with the first DPP Pro I installed in my backup gun and eventually put the metric screws in with red loctite. Now I can't get them out to put in the 8-32's.

 

CZC should be ashamed of this crap.

 

Edited July 25, 2017 by Brooke

[LMS]

13 hours ago, zombywoof said:

I was tired of optic screws coming loose, even with red Loctite. I have found the solution. I have the same Delta point screw problem. I use red Loctite and apply gorilla glue under the head of the screw. I get a little on the screw shaft and let it ooze out of the top of the screw head and let it dry. After thousands of rounds they stay put. It comes off easy too. 

 

My wife's Browning Buckmark optic mount screws would always come loose. No matter how clean I would get the threads, it would still come loose. Red Loctite too. I use this method and so far so good. 

 

How are you getting the red loctite off?   My understanding is that it requires 500 degrees of heat, which would seem like it would fry the electronics.

[LMS]

13 hours ago, Brooke said:

The screws supplied with theDPP Pro are metric as indicated in posts above. The CZC multi cut has 8-32 threads. You can but some 8-32 screws at a hardware. I had to buy screws that were too long and file them down. The other problem is that 8-32 screws won't fit through the hole in the sight. You have to carefully enlarge the hole to get the screw in. It's definitely a monumental FU because I called this to CZC's attention months ago and apparently they chose not to address the issue.

 

The good news is that once I got the right thread and got them in the sight they have not come loose. The bad news is I had your problem with the first DPP Pro I installed in my backup gun and eventually put the metric screws in with red loctite. Now I can't get them out to put in the 8-32's.

 

CZC should be ashamed of this crap.

 

 

I can say with 100% certainty that my CZC milled slide does not have 8-32 threaded holes, they are definitely M4x.7.  I have tried screwing in 8-32 screws and gently threading a 8-32 tap as well as M4x.7 screws and M4x.7 tap, and the 8-32's do not fit and the M4x.7's do fit and perfectly.     Those two sizes are very close, but they are not identical, and I suspect you are getting the 8-32 to go in a for a couple turns and then cranking down on it to force an interference fit (because I was heading down that path before I realized they were really M4x.7).   Looks like you've found something that works for you which is great, but I would not characterize it as a CZC f-up.

[zombywoof]

9 hours ago, LMS said:

 

How are you getting the red loctite off?   My understanding is that it requires 500 degrees of heat, which would seem like it would fry the electronics.

I've never had a problem removing screws with the Red Loctite 271 using only hand tools. My bottle is several years old though.

[Brooke]

On 7/25/2017 at 10:58 PM, LMS said:

 

I can say with 100% certainty that my CZC milled slide does not have 8-32 threaded holes, they are definitely M4x.7.  I have tried screwing in 8-32 screws and gently threading a 8-32 tap as well as M4x.7 screws and M4x.7 tap, and the 8-32's do not fit and the M4x.7's do fit and perfectly.     Those two sizes are very close, but they are not identical, and I suspect you are getting the 8-32 to go in a for a couple turns and then cranking down on it to force an interference fit (because I was heading down that path before I realized they were really M4x.7).   Looks like you've found something that works for you which is great, but I would not characterize it as a CZC f-up.

 

Maybe they changed it, but when I called Stuart confirmed that the threads were 8-32 and 8-32 screws easily fit and were removable and reinsert able several times. The metric screws seemed to fit but could be pulled straight out without rotation. He even said they had to enlarge the holes in the sight to accept the 8-32. Not my imagination.