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How far will a Glock get me in Production?


AussieTactical

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Hi guys

 

Sorry if I am asking some frequently covered topic. I did search, but couldn't find the answer.

 

I have very limited experience with handgun shooting, but have been shooting rifles for hunting and competition for over 20 years. I am in the process of starting shooting IPSC (I am in Australia), and intend to compete in Production division. I am contemplating a Glock 17 as a starting handgun, but it seems like a lot of competitors these days are using CZs or Tanfos in production. So this leaves me wondering if there is a noticeable equipment advantage to be had over a Glock?

 

I understand the "its the Indian not the arrow" arguments. But some I would hate to invest in a Glock, mags, gun leather, etc, only to find that in 6 - 12 months time I am ditching it all to get a better option. Or is there a reasonable chance of me being competitive in the division with a Glock?

 

Thanks in advance for your thoughts...

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If you haven't bought a gun yet, get a CZ (SP01 Shadow specifically); that you're asking the question means your curiosity will get the best of you eventually and if you're not already committed to Glock, there's no reason to start with one.

 

"I wonder if switching to a Glock will help me get to the next level" said no CZ shooter ever!

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Bearing in mind that you are shooting IPSC production, the question you need to ask yourself is "Do I want a 5 pound trigger pull once or every time?"  The IPSC Production rules require a 5 pound first trigger pull and thus strongly favor the metal DA/SA guns.    

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I can't say for sure. But I think that for the most part any reliable handgun that fits you shouldn't really hold youback. There are plenty of top level competitors that run glocks. One of the best in the world is less picky about his guns than I am and has a crushing hand shake. Robert Vogel. A glock will take you as far as you can go, are there guns that are better suited for "race"? Sure, but I can tell you from experience. After a couple months of dry fire and my multigun match today... After the buzzer goes off, I can say for certain that I can't tell the difference between my Accushadows 7 lb pull and the 3 lb SA pull when I am under the clock. Probably because my practice has made the trigger pull somewhat irrelevant. I subscribe to the idea that it's the Indian not the arrow. The gun may simply come a matter of preference, but I have found that a glock with the correct recoil spring pretty much eats all ammo shoved in it that is reasonable in it's pressure (not over pressure and blowing up the gun) 

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4 hours ago, kneelingatlas said:

"I wonder if switching to a Glock will help me get to the next level" said no CZ shooter ever!

Uh,........

 

I think about switching back all the time. Currently thinking about it. Though, not because I think the Glock is better and not because I think the Glock will get me to the next level. I really can't explain why?  I don't know!  

 

So, I'd actually tell a new shooter to go for a Glock. I think they're great guns. But so are CZ's!  

Edited by B_RAD
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3 hours ago, fishbone928 said:

Bearing in mind that you are shooting IPSC production, the question you need to ask yourself is "Do I want a 5 pound trigger pull once or every time?"  The IPSC Production rules require a 5 pound first trigger pull and thus strongly favor the metal DA/SA guns.    

 

^^^^ This. I know a few Australian IPSC shooters, they all run Tanfos.

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19 minutes ago, kneelingatlas said:

 

You think about it because you're a Glock shooter, shooting a CZ! :sight:

 

I said CZ shooter! :roflol:

 

Ha ha. I do love the CZ though!  

 

seriously don't know why I want to switch back?!  I think I'm just gonna do it.  Cause if I don't I'm just gonna keep wanting to. Then, if I decide it was the wrong choice I can switch back. Maybe I'll learn?!  

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I'm in the same boat...I like to shoot GSSF matches and carry a Glock daily.  So I often will cycle through shooting only Glocks - then get the bug and shoot a Tanfo or CZ - then get the Glock bug - then the cycle starts all over again.  I feel that once you get to a certain level, it comes down to the shooters skill set and not the gun mostly.  But I will say that for me at least it feels like I need to muscle the Glock slightly more to make it do what I want vs a 1911, CZ, or Tanfo.  They just seem to shoot well without as much effort.  Again, in my opinion...your mileage may vary as we are all built differently.

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I ran a Glock 34 in USPSA production and enjoyed it. I don't own a CZ but have fired a few that friends own and they are great shooting guns. If you're really on the fence about which to get I would try to get out to a match and talk with people who run both. See if they will let you take a few shots with them. While I like my 34, if I was starting over and know what I know now I would probably opt for the CZ. Just my .02$. 

 

I agree with the "Indian not the arrow" thing about 90%. If the Indians would have had compound bows and composite arrows history might read a little differently. 

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The gun is the least important part of shooting, to the degree that it's almost irrelevant.

 

You can win with almost any gun on the production list.

 

That's not a popular opinion here, but it's true.  

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Depends on your grip strength... if you, even remotely, think your around average or better... get a CZ/tanfo and go have some fun.

If your a plumber or have incredibly strong hands, then sure, glocks are perfectly fine...

Like it's been said above me... there are those who've won with every gun type... however the likelihood with a plastic gun is lower I think...
Maybe it's an experience thing... it takes a while to build grip strength and a steel framed gun will be a good shortcut.


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5 hours ago, wtturn said:

The gun is the least important part of shooting, to the degree that it's almost irrelevant.

 

You can win with almost any gun on the production list.

 

That's not a popular opinion here, but it's true.  

True. There's a guy I shoot 3 gun with that shoots a beat up H&K that he cut a quarter inch off the slide and barrel with a bandsaw to fit in an IDPA division and he yanked half the fire control out to make it SAO. His rifle is built on an 80% lower that he finished pretty roughly. The upper to lower fit is so bad it sounds like maracas when you shake it. Its spray painted and has electrical tape in a few places. The guy wins on occasion against some some pretty big names.

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16 hours ago, wtturn said:

The gun is the least important part of shooting, to the degree that it's almost irrelevant.

 

You can win with almost any gun on the production list.

 

That's not a popular opinion here, but it's true.  

The gun is the least important part, but sticking with the same gun is very important.   Learning and knowing exactly how your gun fires, recoils, etc is important and will only come with practice with that specific gun.   Get a gun you like and stick with it.    Shoot the gun for a while before you go and change anything on.   Once you know the gun inside out, then you will know what you want to upgrade. 

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Glocks have an advantage - they work well, long and they're inexpensive, compared to a CZ ...

 

CZ's have some advantages - better triggers and much heavier to absorb recoil ...and more accurate??

 

There is no harm to starting out with a Glock ...   There are advantages to starting out with a CZ.

 

The reason people pay 2-3x more for the CZ is that it gives them an advantage - it's easier to shoot

fast and accurately at the same time - and that just happens to be The Game you're playing.

 

If $$$ are short, stick with the Glock - you can have a LOT of fun with it and be competitive.

 

If you have the $$$$$$$, go for the CZ and you will NOT regret it.

 

BTW, I notice you're a rifle shooter - a Glock trigger is Very Different from a rifle trigger,

          whereas the CZ trigger is going to be a LOT more familiar to you :) 

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Try to shoot both before you buy and maybe try out some of the different models from each brand. Also look at the rules of IPSC. I know nothing about its production class, but if it is like some of the shooting sports here in the US, what you start out with may determine how and who you compete against.

 

Your belt and mag pouches may work between both platforms. You will be out a holster if you switch unless you start out with a race holster.

 

You will most likely spend more on ammo than a glock or basic cz sooner than you expect, so in all actuality the price difference in the two guns could be a smaller part of your budget than it may seem when getting started. So shoot them both and pick the one you feel comfortable with and that will work with the division you want to shot. Practice as much as you can. Neither gun is going to hold you back in your first year.

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Just look at Dave Sevigny before the Glock scandal. He kicked butt with a G34. Robert Vogel shoots a Glock and kicks some serious butt with it.



Yes, but ask them or anyone who's trained with them and you'll come to find that their hand strength is way above average, leading to their muzzle flip, even when shooting 40cal glocks, to be very manageable and consistent with sub .25 splits...

Not many of us can shoot a glock that fast and be accurate.

Again, it's mostly preference and experience with the same firearm over and over that leads to any kind of success.


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I put a gen 3 factory trigger in a gen 4 Glock 35, nothing else just the trigger did not even polish any thing no big name expensive after markets parts.. I got the great 3.5 trigger with very very little over travel and very short reset .  better then CZ. almost as good as a 1911 try it.

Edited by usmc1974
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Dave S, Bob V, Jessie D, Tori N all  got world, national and regional championships with Glocks. 

 

Is that far enough?

 

You're down under so you don't get to have Taran trick you Glock out.  BTW: Taran made GM in a year with a Glock.

 

I have sent three Glocks to Taran and they all came back significantly better than stock.

 

I had a CZ that Angus' group worked on and I was not disappointed in the least.  A great f@%&@ing platform.  Sold it to the father of my godson so it would end up his some day.  I regret that sale.

 

But if you have the more money than sense Infinity is the only way to go. I have 5 of them including one dedicated for .22..

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On 4/14/2017 at 11:57 AM, pjb45 said:

Dave S, Bob V, Jessie D, Tori N all  got world, national and regional championships with Glocks. 

 

Is that far enough?

 

You're down under so you don't get to have Taran trick you Glock out.  BTW: Taran made GM in a year with a Glock.

 

I have sent three Glocks to Taran and they all came back significantly better than stock.

 

I had a CZ that Angus' group worked on and I was not disappointed in the least.  A great f@%&@ing platform.  Sold it to the father of my godson so it would end up his some day.  I regret that sale.

 

But if you have the more money than sense Infinity is the only way to go. I have 5 of them including one dedicated for .22..

 

Even more: Bob Vogel won Production at the World Shoot with a stock Glock. 

 

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Even more: Bob Vogel won Production at the World Shoot with a stock Glock. 
 



Yeaaaaaa... that is a good argument, seeing as how ipsc requires a 5lb trigger pull on your first pull... (every pull in the case of a stricken fired gun)

But you gotta figure, with his grip strength, that guy can probably break your hand with his handshake.
So you have to factor in grip strength with winning matches in limited division.


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