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New limited shooter questions


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So now that I've been convinced to try shooting at limited (h/t to Hi Power Jack), I'm trying to decide on a gun.

 

I've shot a Ppq, Vp9, g19, and I'm shooting an M&P tomorrow. The new tp9sfx intrigues me for cost and features, but I've only handled (not shot) the tp9v2. I liked it. I handled a xdm and it really didn't feel good in my hand (couldn't easily reach the mag release). I like shooting the g19, but the mad release was a real pain to actuate. The vp9 was really nice to shoot, but I'm uncertain about that trigger guard mag release.

 

I can get a blue label discount, so I'm a bit torn. Seems like g34 ($507) + extended mag release (25) + fo sights (100) + trigger connector/kit (18-150) is going to end up around 650-775, with a fair amount of time put into modding the gun. The ppq q5 is gonna be 750-800. So, when I look at the Canik, 550 looks pretty darn good.

 

Does anyone want to argue for or against going the untested cheapy route?

 

My other question was minor vs major--if I'm buying off the shelf ammo, how do I calculate whether I'm in minor or major territory--but I'll search the forums for that answer.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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From what I've read the Canik seems to be a good buy, but I don't know if it'll hold up after thousands of rounds like a bigger name pistol. As far as ammo, you'll have to chrono it to see if you make major or minor.  If you need the formula, let me know. 

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If you decide to go m&p, I have a 5" .40 that I'm trying to get rid of to pay for other guns. 

 

The m&p treated me fine, honestly I would stick with the big names as there is more support and parts.

 

Power factor is just bullet weight x velocity. To make minor you have to break 125,000 and to make major you have to shoot .40 cal and break 165,000. For example 180 grain bullet x 950 feet per second is 171,000 and would be clarified as major

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I have two glock 35s set up for limited if your interested. Sights, magwell, triggers, guide rods, stippled 10 mags between the 2 most have Dawson +5 extensions, mag pouches. Not looking for a fortune. I moved to a 2011 and my Glocks are just sitting. 

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Looking at your post it looks as if you are going with a 9mm, in that case you by rule will be scored minor. You would need to chrono just to make sure you would not be sub minor, PF=bullet weight X velocity

Edited by SWprotected
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I started in Limited with a Glock 35. I added the Zev internals (Trigger, Springs, Striker), magwell and Taran Basepads. I ran major with normal spec .40S&W ammo. For me, since I am still new to this sport, I wanted to shoot major so my misses (C and D zone hits) are not as much as a drop as with minor.  I have since moved to a 2011 platform. If you want a good starting point for limited then I'd either go with an M&P or Glock. There are more aftermarket options with both of them and you can normally fine great used deals.

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Fantastic plastic seems to be more of a production thing, but paying for a gun that has the ability to go with optics and then not using optics seems like a waste of funds.  Production is also the best place for 9mm.  Pretty much any factory ammo seems to get you easily into the minor range.  

However, I'm a horrible person to ask because I use a 9mm CZ TS that has been modded a bit.  I shoot minor and use factory ammo.  These are considered to be greater sins than showing up with a Hi Point to many, but you have to do what makes sense for you.  The really invested guys are going to tell you that you NEED to roll your own ammo and they might be right.  I compete mostly in outlaw matches and the skills there are not nearly as close as at Area matches where a hit or two can make the difference between first and fourth place.  I say that to say, do whatever you feel works for you and don't be afraid to make the wrong call.  If you decide to get really into the sport, the changes you need to make will become obvious.

Just get out there and play!

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^

Shooting off the shelf ammo, I don't think .40 is the route to go, but that's just my opinion.  Also, I think that if you end up going plastic in limited and shooting major, you'll probably want to sell and start over within your first year.   Just a guess, but seems to happen a lot

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7 hours ago, Pistolpete9 said:

^

Shooting off the shelf ammo, I don't think .40 is the route to go, but that's just my opinion.  Also, I think that if you end up going plastic in limited and shooting major, you'll probably want to sell and start over within your first year.   Just a guess, but seems to happen a lot

 

Sounds right... Started in SS, got the m&p, and within six months I was in a CK

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12 hours ago, sstephns said:

If you plan to shoot more than a few thousand rounds a year, plan on loading unless you're made of money

 

If you don't want to reload, see if there is a local company by you that sells reloads as that can save you a little bit compared to buying factory ammo.

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I started in limited using an M&P9 with magazine extensions and eventually upgraded to an STI Edge in .40. I felt like I was doing well with shooting limited minor, but couldn't get the feeling out of my head that I was at a disadvantage due to shooting minor so I would not recommend a 9mm. I learned after switching that the couple extra bullets in the magazine didn't help. I don't see a problem starting with a M&P or a Glock to get started though as your biggest problem is going to be technique more than the hardware. There will be a nagging feeling in your head that if you upgrade to a fancy limited gun you will instantly do better, but it won't help as much as you think if you have a flawed technique.

 

If money is a problem get a polymer gun with magazine extensions. If you want to go with the "buy once cry once" thought go with a 2011.

 

As for power factor. PF = (bullet weight x velocity) / 1000. 125 is minor and 165 is major. Most factory ammo will be well over the power factor you need. If you want to be really competitive, eventually you will start reloading to tailor the load to your gun and to save money.

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Also, there is a bit of "what am I here for?" to ask yourself.  If you want to win on a bigger scale, it's going to be handloading a .40 in a much more expensive pistol most likely.  If it's simply to become a better shooter, than don't worry about having the best.  Get what you want and focus on simply improving and having fun.  I think a lot of guys get swept up in the gamesmanship and lose sight of what they actually are wanting out of the sport.  Some guys really DO want to be the absolute best in the world and are willing to do what it takes to get there.  Personally, I can't afford to do that (time, money, marriage) and really enjoy just seeing my numbers get better over time.  Which kind are you?

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On 4/12/2017 at 10:55 AM, tanks said:

 

^^^ This.

If cost is such a factor that you have to look at plastic production guns then I'd shoot production. 

 

Agreed. If those are the guns you're looking at, shoot Production.

 

In Limited I'd be looking at a CZ TacticalSport, a Tanfo Limited Elite, a Glock 35 with weight added... or the heavy hitter which is a 2011. All chambered in .40

 

If you're shooting 9mm then shoot Production.

 

Edited by MemphisMechanic
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  • 4 weeks later...

You didn't mention if you have a production class (9mm) gun now, if so why not start with it. If you are looking for something that you can shoot in both limited and production, last time I checked none of the Canik models are on the legal gun list.

Otherwise I agree with others that you should have a .40 cal if buying a gun to shoot limited, the scoring difference is hard to make up for.

I started in limited with a Glock 35 with the common aftermarket parts and did well with it.

It was very reliable, nice not ever losing points because the gun didn't go bang. Unless you're a high A or Master shooter who is being held back because of the gun, a glock or m&p, XDM should be fine to start with. If you are having fun & decide to shoot limited full time move up to a Tanfo or 2011 then (after a Dillon reloading press).

Either way go find the 1 that fits your hand and p.o.a. best, shoot as many as possible 1st and go have fun.

 

Good luck, 

SDTMatch40 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

You are at a big disadvantage in limited division shooting minor (9mm).  If you want a polymer gun go with the G35 or any 40S&W gun. If you can afford it go with a 2011. It will save you in the long run.  I started with a G35, and finally when i got everything you possibly can for it. I realized it will never run and feel quite like a 2011. A STI Edge is a great way to go. It comes out of the box competition ready.  They are somewhat pricey tho. But my first one I found on  gunsamerica.com for 1500 came with 5 mags and a holster.  A decked out glock will be about the same price.  

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19 hours ago, Jts2581 said:

... A STI Edge is a great way to go. It comes out of the box competition ready.  ...

 

Almost, I'd recommend a trigger job to reduce the trigger pull from the factory 4lbs to 1.5lbs or so. 

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14 minutes ago, tanks said:

 

I recommend  reducing the trigger pull from the factory 4lbs to 1.5lbs or so. 

 

I'd be cautious going down to 1.5 lbs.    Especially if you're used to Glocks.

 

Shot with a guy who had his STI lowered to 2.0 lbs, and he sent it in to a

smith to RAISE that to 3.0 lbs.

 

I've been shooting for 64 years, and my STI TruBor is at 3.0 lbs - light enough

for me ....  :) 

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I've bought 3 of them.  Luckily one of the last 2 guns were @2.75 and the other was right @3.  The 1.5 lb stuff is too light for me personally. See a lot of seasoned folks AD.  Even when they're just prepping the trigger.  Some people like the super light.  For me 2.5-3 is perfect.  

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I would never shoot limited MINOR, just cause youre not competetive unless youre shooting all As at 20 secs a stage, 32 round stage. From me, NO GO on the g34. Shoot .40

 

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I tried to shoot Limited Minor for a season because it's what I had from IDPA.  It turned out to be a painful lesson.  Much like everyone else, I now have a pair of 2011's and my Glocks keep each other company in the safe.

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