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complications between work setup and competition setup


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Hello everyone, I'm new to the competition scene and looking for some advice. 

 

I currently work as a LEO and want to start shooting in USPSA production this season but had a few concerns with training. For work I carry a G17 with streamlight tac light in a level 3 holster and flap top mag pouch at 11oclcok on belt. I know I cant have the light on for production and the mag pouches will have to be moved back to be legal. I also have to qualify pretty regular and I'm also practicing for the swat qualifier.

 

So here is my question, what type of complications will I run into have two different setups. Is it really just as simple to equally practice with both. Anything I should pay special attention too? Any and all advice would be appreciated.

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What is your goal with competing? Is it to win? Or is it to just enjoy shooting and get better?

 

Just an FYI, there is an allowance at level 1 matches to allow LEOs to use their duty gear even if it doesn't meet division requirements. It must be approved by the MD/RM.

 

5.2.8 Competitors deemed by the Match Director to be full-time law enforcement officers with arrest powers or military personnel on current active duty orders, may be entitled to use their duty holsters or similar holster and related equipment when such equipment does not strictly satisfy the equipment or other requirements of the declared Division. The Range Master will remain the final authority in respect of the safety and suitability of using such equipment at USPSA matches. The use of such equipment, except as otherwise permitted in the rules, is restricted to Level I matches only.

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If you want to fill your mags and only load 1-2 times, go with Limited minor and you can then position gun & mags anywhere.

 

If you want to shoot Production you need to download mags to 10, even with LEO exemption from mag & holster location, and you're going to need 5-6 mags on your person.

Edited by MemphisMechanic
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After thinking it over I'm leaning towards production because from what I researched there is a lot more production shooters in my area and I like the idea of having to plan stages with multiple reloads( maybe i'm just weird like that lol), plus i already have 7 mags.

 

Now going from a level 3 holster to a level 1 holster will that cause a lot of problems or will having two different set ups with equal practice help curve that problem? Example being I don't want to be on duty and have to pull my weapon and I just start yanking on it like its a level 1 or vice versa. 

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I started the sport using my duty G22 with full duty gear shooting L10, eventually moving on to a full custom STI and a race holster.  My advice would be to set up a dedicated Production rig, and use your duty gun.  Just have to regularly practice draws and reloads with your duty gear, so now you'll have to practice twice as much lol.  Eventually you'll have enough muscle memory built up so that you can do it in your sleep.  If you run a dedicated Production rig, its helpful to occasionally shoot a match with your duty shit once in a while.  At one point I had a full Limited setup with an STI, a drop holster for secret squirrel stuff, along with a patrol duty belt for a G22 to contend with.  And the patrol holster was that damn Safariland Widowmaker.  Just have to practice extra.

 

Some of the high-speed/low drag types might say our sport is detrimental to real world shooting.

 

Fast draws, indexing, sight alignment, quick and accurate shots under stress, moving while shooting, multiple target engagement: we do this on a regular basis.  The skill set you develop transfers over to the LE side for sure.

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55 minutes ago, crispyrice said:

  I don't want to be on duty and have to pull my weapon and I just start yanking on it like its a level 1

 

That's a valid concern.

 

We tend to perform like we train ...

 

Many LEO's do both - up to you whether you feel like you can switch back and forth, easily.

 

I shoot both dot sights and iron sights - takes a little practice to smooth them out, but, it's manageable for me.

Switching back and forth from USPSA to IDPA was NOT easy for me so I quit IDPA.

 

Kind of personal - it's an important question - so consider it carefully.

 

I'm sure you are about to receive a LOT of feedback from LEO's about this subject :) 

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Since you are just getting started I say you show up with your duty gear and just do it.  We have some guys who do that for years because they want to get better with their duty gear and don't really care where they land in the rankings.  As long as they themselves are getting better each time, they are happy.  And I am always happy to see those guys out there, because it means they take their job seriously.  I hope THEY are the ones who show up to save my ass instead of the donut-eating fat slob who only shoots when he has to qualify.

 

And we have some guys who can't stand to "lose", get pissed off at their gear, and buy all brand new race gear after on single match.  To be fair, we have those guys on the civilian side too.  :-)

 

You've just got to figure out where you fall in that spectrum.  Until you do, you might as  well show up and shoot with what you've got.  If you wait until you are "ready" you'll never do anything.

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I completely agree with not waiting until i'm "ready" before I start, like you say that day will never come then. But with my rotating days off and shifts it looks like I I wont be able to get to my first match until late may/ early June when i switch to a more regular schedule. Either my day off doesn't fall on a match or I'm working mid-day during event day. Love the job but hate the schedule lol.

 

I have no objections to using my duty gear for a couple matches for practice, where else will I be able to train in that type of environment besides work. I'm very competitive so I see myself being one of those guys that gets frustrated with my duty gear, but like hi-power said you preform like you train. Plus my bday is coming up and the SO is needs some ideas....what perfect timing lol. Not to start off a new topic but looks like I'm leaning toward BT black ice holster, daa belt, and ghost pouches. 

 

Thanks for the responses and if you have any other tidbits to share im all ears.

 

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My vote would be to run your duty gear in Limited Minor for the time being. There is no point in training yourself to drop mags at 8-10 rounds fired when you normally have 17+1 on tap.  Your duty gear shouldn't make more than a 0.5 second difference in stage time. I have a Level 1 holster for USPSA and a Safariland retention holster for 3 gun. My draw and fire times with each holster are 1.0 and 1.2 seconds, respectively.  And if you reaaaaally want to game it, tuck the mag pouch flaps behind your mags so you have an unimpeded draw.

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On 4/8/2017 at 0:53 PM, ClangClang said:

My vote would be to run your duty gear in Limited Minor for the time being. There is no point in training yourself to drop mags at 8-10 rounds fired when you normally have 17+1 on tap.  Your duty gear shouldn't make more than a 0.5 second difference in stage time. I have a Level 1 holster for USPSA and a Safariland retention holster for 3 gun. My draw and fire times with each holster are 1.0 and 1.2 seconds, respectively.  And if you reaaaaally want to game it, tuck the mag pouch flaps behind your mags so you have an unimpeded draw.

 

That does make more  sense in what I am trying to accomplish. Now with the LEO exemption of gear for level 1 matches will I be able to run with my light on the gun as well or will that be up to the MD/RO of the match?

 

 

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On 4/8/2017 at 1:53 PM, ClangClang said:

  And if you reaaaaally want to game it, tuck the mag pouch flaps behind your mags so you have an unimpeded draw.

That's not gaming. That's cheating.

 

"5.2.5.3  If a retaining strap is attached to a holster or magazine pouch, it must be applied or closed prior to issuance of the “Standby” command. "

 

 

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On 4/5/2017 at 5:31 PM, js1130146 said:

What is your goal with competing? Is it to win? Or is it to just enjoy shooting and get better?

 

Just an FYI, there is an allowance at level 1 matches to allow LEOs to use their duty gear even if it doesn't meet division requirements. It must be approved by the MD/RM.

 

5.2.8 Competitors deemed by the Match Director to be full-time law enforcement officers with arrest powers or military personnel on current active duty orders, may be entitled to use their duty holsters or similar holster and related equipment when such equipment does not strictly satisfy the equipment or other requirements of the declared Division. The Range Master will remain the final authority in respect of the safety and suitability of using such equipment at USPSA matches. The use of such equipment, except as otherwise permitted in the rules, is restricted to Level I matches only.

Note that it says "holsters and related equipment", not gun. He cannot shoot a gun with a light in PD. He would have to shoot Limited, if the light was non-functioning. If it had a bulb, he would have to shoot open.

Edited by GrumpyOne
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I'm a full time LEO, and when I started shooting USPSA I used an M&P 9L for production division shooting. At work I carry a Glock 21 with a TLR1 on it. To be honest, the gear setup never did cause me any issues or "training scars," but the difference in the pistols did cause some problems. I would do so much practice with my competition gun that when I practiced with my duty gun I would have to adjust to get the gun to naturally line up with my eye. Because of this I am switching my competition gun to a glock. So the gear setup hasn't been a problem at all, but using different guns does make a difference in shooting proficiency. Of course I know that people are gonna say "you should be able to shoot any gun you pick up, blah blah blah." True, you can shoot anything you pick up, but I can tell that I have done so much practice with the 9L that it was affecting the speed at which I was able to shoot my glock. Just food for thought.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 4/7/2017 at 1:46 PM, crispyrice said:

Now going from a level 3 holster to a level 1 holster will that cause a lot of problems or will having two different set ups with equal practice help curve that problem? Example being I don't want to be on duty and have to pull my weapon and I just start yanking on it like its a level 1 or vice versa. 

 

Being a former LEO, this is where you could get yourself into trouble...personally, I would use your holster that you use at work.  This example that you put right here is exactly what you do NOT want to happen at work.  You don't want to get used to the level 1 and forget about the level 3 retention and if your life depends on it, you may not have time for more than one "yank" on that firearm from your belt.  Personally, I would use your level 3 holster, so that you are always familiar with it and keep that mindset every time you unholster your firearm.  Again, that is just me and my thought process.  They may be others that might be able to distinguish between the two when they are on duty, but training is all about muscle memory and that is what your body reverts to in a stress situation and you don't want your body trying to remember which level holster you have on and what you need to do in that situation.  You just want to do it.  The choice is yours...be safe out there and thank you for your service.

Edited by R1_Demon
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On 4/7/2017 at 2:44 PM, Hi-Power Jack said:

 

That's a valid concern.

 

We tend to perform like we train ...

 

Many LEO's do both - up to you whether you feel like you can switch back and forth, easily.

 

Kind of personal - it's an important question - so consider it carefully.

 

I'm sure you are about to receive a LOT of feedback from LEO's about this subject :) 

 

Bingo!  Exactly Mr. Jack...but, as you said, it is a personal decision and OP has to decide for themselves whether they can truly switch back and forth between the two when on duty or competition.

 

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I did my first match this past Sunday using my duty gear and I was times were about the same as everyone in my squad. I'm just going to keep using my duty gear untill i start going to larger matches where ill have to use a different setup to stay legal.  

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On 4/10/2017 at 9:22 PM, GrumpyOne said:

Note that it says "holsters and related equipment", not gun. He cannot shoot a gun with a light in PD. He would have to shoot Limited, if the light was non-functioning. If it had a bulb, he would have to shoot open.

 

Please cite the rule that allows a gun with an installed light to be shot in any division other than Open.  I couldn't find it.

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2 hours ago, mccurdy53 said:

 

Please cite the rule that allows a gun with an installed light to be shot in any division other than Open.  I couldn't find it.

It's not in the rulebook. It is a ruling/interpretation from Troy a few years ago for Bob Vogel. I think it is some meeting minutes somewhere and I think it's dumb.

Edited by Sarge
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15 hours ago, Sarge said:

It's not in the rulebook. It is a ruling/interpretation from Troy a few years ago for Bob Vogel. I think it is some meeting minutes somewhere and I think it's dumb.

 

Thank You.

 

The rulebook states that an installed light is specifically not allowed in Limited, Limited 10, Production, Single Stack or Revolver.

 

Edited by mccurdy53
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55 minutes ago, mccurdy53 said:

 

Thank You.

 

The rulebook states that an installed light is specifically not allowed in Limited, Limited 10, Production, Single Stack or Revolver.

 

Troy's ruling (IIRC) said that since frame weights were now allowed in Limited but lights were not, if the light was not functional (no batteries, bulb, etc.), then it was essentially a frame weight.

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