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New Reload Rules


rowdyb

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Is it just me and the places I shoot IDPA, but has anyone else seen the number of retention reloads they do during a match sky rocket?

 

It seems I do a rwr on 7/10 stages now, be it a local or a big match.

 

I'm definitely surprised I'm not round dumping as much as I thought I would to force a slide lock reload while moving, in a legal by the rules manner.

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I'll look at a stage and decide where it may make sense to dump a few extra rounds ahead of time.
If I don't need them for makeup shots, I can get rid of them in about .15 sec each... and still put them on paper somewhere.
3 rounds to dump? My RWR is at least .5 slower than a normal reload.... even more when moving.


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1 hour ago, RangerTrace said:

This is probably a dumb question for you IDPA guys, but do you have to load your mags to full division capacity?  

 

Yes, unless the stage briefing tells you otherwise, or you download all mags to the same reduced capacity for the entire match. I'll try to find the specific rule for you. 

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1 hour ago, DKorn said:

 

Yes, unless the stage briefing tells you otherwise, or you download all mags to the same reduced capacity for the entire match. I'll try to find the specific rule for you. 

yep i think the theory is that you wouldn't download your carry mags.  folks would love to have even numbered ammo (8 or 10 rounds) in their gun at the start as then you'd be reloading between targets as opposed to after taking one shot at a target and having to re-engage that same target.

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4 hours ago, DKorn said:

 

Yes, unless the stage briefing tells you otherwise, or you download all mags to the same reduced capacity for the entire match. I'll try to find the specific rule for you. 

8.1.3 Magazine Loading:All magazines must be loaded to division capacity at the start signal throughout the match except in the following cases:

  1. If a magazine is used that holds less than division capacity, the shooter will load all magazines to the capacity of the lowest magazine throughout the match.

  2. The stage description may require reduced magazine loading.

  3. In the Revolver division, the shooter must load the revolver and all loading devices with the same number of

    rounds throughout the match unless the above loading exceptions apply.

8.1.4 Division Capacity
SSP, ESP, SPD ............ 10 rounds

CDP, CCP................... 8 rounds

REV, BUG-S ............... 6 rounds

BUG-R....................... 5 rounds total

In all semi-auto divisions except BUG-S, the shooter will also start with one additional round in the chamber, unless the stage description requires otherwise. 

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Early on there was some gaming to schedule reloads by the number of rounds loaded.  They banned that, so the geniuses started carrying different sizes of magazine.    Then that was blocked.  Once upon a time, you could be penalized for "round dumping."  I still think they instituted the "flat footed reload" to punish us for complaining about the bogus BS round dumping penalty. 

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hahahahaha this ^^^.

 

using that reasoning i'd be starting with 18 rounds in my SSP gun.  (the less you apply "real life" and "reason" to what has evolved into a scenario based game the better off you'll be)

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On 4/4/2017 at 10:41 PM, rowdyb said:

Is it just me and the places I shoot IDPA, but has anyone else seen the number of retention reloads they do during a match sky rocket?

 

It seems I do a rwr on 7/10 stages now, be it a local or a big match.

 

I'm definitely surprised I'm not round dumping as much as I thought I would to force a slide lock reload while moving, in a legal by the rules manner.

That's probably the result of your clubs stage designs.

 

My experience is that 99.99% of the reloads at our club are coming from slide lock and the majority of us are round dumping. If it requires 3 shots or less to get to slide lock, I'm dumping. Or I'll run dry in the open, allowing me to stop, reload, then continue with the CoF. For me, my RWR aren't quick/consistent enough for me to deal with the hassle. And with how our match MDs are designing our stages, rarely are we having to do flat footed reloads.

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I guess the couple local matches here I see a lot of stages where there are 2-4 targets (4-8 rounds) then some sort of cover to move and rwr behind and then another 2-4 targets. Where going to 11 would always have you in the middle of an array, doing the old idpa stand by of a standing slide lock reload.

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Maybe because it's early but I think I have a dumb question....

 

page 11, cover and concealment rules. 3.5.6.B   when it says "in stages with cover and concealment, shooters may reload standing still or on the move at any time, as long as they are not exposed to targets that are not fully engaged during the reload."

 

what is the definition of exposed?

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Not sure I've done any more since the new rules. Typically dumping a round firing a makeup shot is quicker. At a tier 2 match last weekend, I did a TR between two ports. After the stage, the score keeper was asking the SO why I didn't get a PE. My ears perked, but the SO was in the know. There were a couple times at the start of the year when I planned to do a TR at a local match, but also thought to check with the SO. He said it wasn't legal, obviously not being familiar with new rules yet. I let it go then, no big deal.

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32 minutes ago, rowdyb said:

Maybe because it's early but I think I have a dumb question....

 

page 11, cover and concealment rules. 3.5.6.B   when it says "in stages with cover and concealment, shooters may reload standing still or on the move at any time, as long as they are not exposed to targets that are not fully engaged during the reload."

 

what is the definition of exposed?

 

Exposed:  I say:  In view of target(s) AND on the wrong side of the fault line.  I would add in view of the front face of target(s) at a safe shooting angle. 

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So here is my dumb, I should probably know better, concern.

 

I shoot some targets at P1, and do a rwr behind a wall moving to p2. I arrive at the fault line at P2 in a legal position and am not done with my reload. I'm in a legal position to shoot but the gun is not loaded. Is this "exposed"?

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If you can shoot it, you are exposed, right?

 

First, let's quote 3.5.6 (B) so we are all on the same page: In stages with cover or concealment, shooters may reload standing still or on the move at any time, as long as they are not exposed to targets that are not fully engaged during the reload.

 

And now let's define the reload at rule 3.4.3:  A firearm is deemed to be reloaded when the magazine is seated and the slide is in battery or the revolver cylinder is closed.  The firearm must contain at least one unfired cartridge, in the chamber, magazine, or cylinder.

 

So, you would be legal to "reload" your empty gun by first closing the slide, then inserting a loaded magazine with an empty chamber.  Obviously no advantage in that kind of malfunction (mental or mechanical), but they probably wrote it that way so when we do a brainfart like that there isn't an extra penalty for exposed to a threat with an unfinished reload.  I did that scenario many times at one local match when I had to shoot with a borrowed HK USP pistol.  For the entire day, when I needed to reload, I would attempt to push IN the magazine release.  Then I would remember that you push DOWN on the HK.  Then my brain took over again, and said to my thumb that if you're pushing down, then you are wanting to do it on the slide stop, not the magazine release.  Every reload all day had me laughing at myself as I dropped the slide, then the magazine, reloaded, and racked the slide.  I couldn't help it.

 

IDPA is my lowest-priority game now.  Even when I decided to get back into IDPA because there was nothing else to do sometimes, I decided to stick with revolver for it.  It doesn't mess up any of my semi-auto skills, and is way easier for the reload rules.

Edited by MAC702
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4 minutes ago, Jim Watson said:

If you are behind the fault line you are in "cover" and can do as you please.  Complete the reload and shoot, in this case. 

Ah yes, the new fault line rules.  Forgot about them already.  I've not shot IDPA this year.

 

So as long as you are in the fault lines, you can be exposed, but outside of the fault lines, you need a hot gun for exposed targets.  But I guess you can shoot on both sides of the fault lines, depending on the stage?

 

Oh, crap, never mind.  I'm going to have to see how this is being done in practice...

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I see what you are trying to get at regarding "exposed" with that first stage.  To answer your question, yes. At least one out of four stages at my local club seems to present that opportunity. Even more so for CDP and CCP shooters. Personally, I'm still going slide lock, but the more skilled shooters are RWR ... 

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