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another cracked slide!


kimberacp

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Yep, this weekend gun would not group and bullets would tumble.    Gunsmith looked at it and notice the crack, at the ejection port.    Just like the others slides that you see posted here on the forum.

Major 9, 121 gr MG with 7.3 WAC.   8lb spring .

I did have a 10 lb spring but the 8lb shot sooo much better.   Oh well!!

 

From what I have read here on the forum.  If your shooting light bullets and running the spring under 10lbs, you will probably break something eventually.   

So, shooting heavier bullets is probably the answer to longevity, in an Open gun.

 

At this point am not sure if I want to continue in Open.

Maybe, shooting bullets in the 130 range might do well?

 

thanks

 

 

 

 

 

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Yet again my best advice is to move on from WAC to make major despite the success many have with it.  Not saying it is the sole problem but it's not helping.  Especially at over 170 pf with lighter bullets. 

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Material of the slide matters the most, I have had good luck with with sv and caspian slides, shot about 175 to 180 power factor ranging from 115 up to 147s with hollow points precision deltas with 8# springs for about 2 years, now fortunately enough no cracked slide"knock on wood"

 

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57 minutes ago, theWacoKid said:

Yet again my best advice is to move on from WAC to make major despite the success many have with it.  Not saying it is the sole problem but it's not helping.  Especially at over 170 pf with lighter bullets. 

 

I also cracked a slide last year, and was running WAC with 124's and then 115's. That certainly doesn't prove much, but its an interesting correlation. 

 

Your thinking that WAC is still too fast for major PF in 9 ?

 

I haven't tried HS6 in years, but maybe its time... cracking slides is no bueno.

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am considering, yes, rebuild the top end but shooting minor in the future.      Or shoot bullets in the 130 range.   Lighter springs would be a problem with those bullets.

The only thing is, with the 130gr bullets are sized .356.

Edited by kimberacp
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1 hour ago, racer-x said:

 

I also cracked a slide last year, and was running WAC with 124's and then 115's. That certainly doesn't prove much, but its an interesting correlation. 

 

Your thinking that WAC is still too fast for major PF in 9 ?

 

I haven't tried HS6 in years, but maybe its time... cracking slides is no bueno.

 

Yes, I believe the peak pressure relative to power factor is much higher than necessary considering how many good powders are out there.  I found HS-6 and anything slower just works better and is less stress on your gun and brass.  This is just my opinion after doing my own research and experimentation.

 

After tinkering through 1 pound of WAC it is no longer allowed in any of my guns.  In fact, just saw a gun go down this past weekend with WAC.  Not saying it was the reason, but it's too frequently a part of the equation with damaged guns to not put two and two together.

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12 minutes ago, theWacoKid said:

 

Yes, I believe the peak pressure relative to power factor is much higher than necessary considering how many good powders are out there.  I found HS-6 and anything slower just works better and is less stress on your gun and brass.  This is just my opinion after doing my own research and experimentation.

 

After tinkering through 1 pound of WAC it is no longer allowed in any of my guns.  In fact, just saw a gun go down this past weekend with WAC.  Not saying it was the reason, but it's too frequently a part of the equation with damaged guns to not put two and two together.

You tinkered with only a pound of WAC and think it's cracking slides.? I have used 16 pounds at least and early on cracked a slide but it was a known defect from STI. I run 7.8 under 115's and see no issues as long as the gun parts are good from the beginning. The guys I talk to consider WAC to be pretty tame.

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9 minutes ago, Sarge said:

You tinkered with only a pound of WAC and think it's cracking slides.?

 

Not exactly.  I think it's not helping the situation.  Overall I think it's a bad choice given the other options available.  This is just my own personal opinion from my experience and I've stated such every time I have mentioned my disdain.  I hate expressing this opinion because of so many people who love it, have great success with it, and will express the exact opposite position.  But let's just say it only took one pound to scare me away for good.  

Edited by theWacoKid
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Like Sarge, and many other shooters, I've gone through quite a few 8-pounders

of WAC with 124 grain MG bullets ...

 

I'm not disagreeing with you, Waco, and appreciate the hypothesis.

 

So far, I believe that you are the only one to mention this possibility??

 

Don't know exactly how to test the theory - anyone else have any input on this?

 

Worth exploring ...    Thanks for bringing it up.    :) 

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18 hours ago, theWacoKid said:

 

Yes, I believe the peak pressure relative to power factor is much higher than necessary considering how many good powders are out there.  I found HS-6 and anything slower just works better and is less stress on your gun and brass.  This is just my opinion after doing my own research and experimentation.

 

After tinkering through 1 pound of WAC it is no longer allowed in any of my guns.  In fact, just saw a gun go down this past weekend with WAC.  Not saying it was the reason, but it's too frequently a part of the equation with damaged guns to not put two and two together.

Like Sarge, I've used wac for years, probably over 40 lbs in 38 sc and 9mm open guns without problems. Last cracked slide was with hs6 and 115's . But that was one of sti's junk.

But you have to use what gives you confidence

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It is the slides, not the powder.  I have been in the shooting sports for over 35 years now, shot all types of powders looking for that edge.   I was running 115's at 1560 fps when the power factors were 175.  Shot a 1610 fps at the chrono at The Mountaineer Classic , that was held in W.Va  many , many years ago.  My guns were built by Don Fraley back then as well.  Caspian slides all of the way.  Never had a crack in a slide in so many guns that I can't remember, but always were built with Caspian slides.  I remember back when George at EGW was cutting slides so light that you could see all of the way through them, see the firing pin and ejector.  How things has changed but the slide held up.  I am sorry to hear that this is happening to shooters.  Most of the smiths stand behind their products and do what is right, but it cost everyone involved time and money.  The 9x25's were not cracking slides that I remember.  They would shear the top lugs and crack grips, but I don't remember the slide cracking.  Wow, I am old.

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    The problem is the slides and not the powder. There are multiple reasons slides will crack starting with the manufacturing process, which seems to be a problem with STI slides. There is also the hardening process of the metal which can impact how well the slide holds up. It has to be hard enough to be strong and soft enough not to be brittle. The machine and finishing work can also lead to cracks due to sharp corners left in the metal smaller than you can see. These spots will eventually start to run in the metal and form a crack that will keep travelling until it exits the piece. Slide cuts and material removal in the wrong location and amount can lead to flexing which will eventually lead to a crack. Tool marks left in slide cuts are also another way to create the possibility of cracks.

     STI slides seem to crack more than others for some reason, so until they seem to get this fixed I would stay away from them.  

 

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Don't mean to be a wiseacre, but how do we know if a cracked slide was caused by a metallurgical problem

or a powder problem?   Or, a combination of both?

 

What if I have a slide with a metallurgical flaw, but if I use one powder or another, I will be more or less

likely to end up with a cracked slide?

 

Just wondering ...    :huh:

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Jack,

You are exactly right.  It's not just one thing as much as everyone likes to find the "magic answer".  Yes there are some problems with slides.  But, in my opinion, yes, there is some legitimacy to certain powders and loads being harder on guns and thus encouraging early failure.  I also find that some major loads are more 'sensitive' where a small reloading issue can create a much greater likelihood of catastrophic problems.

 

In the end it's not one thing, it's a combination of everything and each situation has different levels of contributions from different factors.  But I like to play it as smart as I can and avoid loads that are harsh and/or sensitive.

 

I know guys with guns tough as nails that run loads I won't let near my guns.  Yet their stuff doesn't break, continues to run, and seemingly doesn't care.  Does this mean it is the best practice?  Of course not.  Some guns are just tough enough that they aren't gonna break.  Some guns are sorry enough they are going to break with anything.  And then the middle of the road are good guns that are going to eventually or maybe break depending on the abuse they receive.

Edited by theWacoKid
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1 hour ago, Hi-Power Jack said:

 

What happened?    What was it that scared you away from WAC?

 

The crazy high power factor at low charge weights bothered me first. Considering how much room is left in the case and how quickly velocity climbed didn't really leave me warm and fuzzy. 

 

I found the base of my fired brass was bulged more than normal and recoil seemed very sharp. 

 

Every piece of of evidence led me to believe I was pushing much higher peak pressures than anything else I've messed with. 

 

The kicker was the unidentified shrapnel I took to my finger while testing that one pound. 

 

That was was it and ever since I've paid close attention to wac showing up in instances of blown cases, barrels, and other high pressure incidents.  

Edited by theWacoKid
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4 minutes ago, racer-x said:

How did your primers look with those WAC loads?

 

 

Primers never looked overly concerning. In fact they looked mostly similar to what I was used to. Flattened a bit but not smeared. 

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Figures... whish we had a more accurate way to gauge pressure in our guns.

 

I bought a pound of HS6 to try.

Need to work up a 115 & 124 load up & see how it feels in my gun.

A little disappointed with WAC after my recent gun malfunctions with unburned powder chunks. Strange, never a hint of this in previous containers of WAC.

 

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   Another thing about this situation is the OP said they had a 10# spring in the gun and went to an 8# spring because it shot better. I assume better means softer and /or flatter. I'm sure it did since the lighter spring takes less force to cycle the slide, and it might have been slamming the slide into the frame. This could have helped the slide to crack also, but I don't know without inspection.

    As far as WAC powder, I do not use this and IMO it is too fast burning to make major with any weight bullet. Wacokid may be partially right in that using these fast burning powders is a cause of slide cracking. IMO there is nothing safe about 9 major from a loading standpoint, making major PF with a 9mm exceeds the loading charts by large amounts. This is a whole different issue and topic though...lol.

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I have had two slides on two guns crack on me this year, they are about a year and half old and round count about 6,000 each maybe. I was using HS-6 8.8gr with MG 115 jhp @ 1.160 which ran about 170 power factor in my guns. A couple of weeks ago changed to WAC 7.5gr with MG 115jhp @ 1.160 and was shocked at the increase in accuracy and the more predictable dot tracking. I am now thinking that the HS-6 was too much gas for my CKarms guns, the felt recoil difference is slight between the two and scope stays cleaner longer with WAC. I suspect the cause of the cracked slides was ether too little comp clearance and/or slide material not the loads.

Edited by xdnok
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On 4/5/2017 at 10:40 AM, xdnok said:

I have had two slides on two guns crack on me this year, they are about a year and half old and round count about 6,000 each maybe. I was using HS-6 8.8gr with MG 115 jhp @ 1.160 which ran about 170 power factor in my guns. A couple of weeks ago changed to WAC 7.5gr with MG 115jhp @ 1.160 and was shocked at the increase in accuracy and the more predictable dot tracking. I am now thinking that the HS-6 was too much gas for my CKarms guns, the felt recoil difference is slight between the two and scope stays cleaner longer with WAC. I suspect the cause of the cracked slides was ether too little comp clearance and/or slide material not the loads.

 

Were the slides tri-topped?  I would bet, most ejection port cracks are due to tri-topping.  The only cracked slide I've had was a tri-topped slide cut way to deep.  

 

I don't buy that powder is the culprit.  I do agree that "loads" contribute.  If you make 170 PF with no barrel holes and then add several popple holes, you have to increase the amount of powder to maintain the 170 PF.  What was once a true 170 is now a 180 or more PF gun.  You have increased chamber pressure in the hunt for a "flatter" shooting gun.  Let's face it--We abuse Open guns.  The old saying "Pay to play".

 

 

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