accuracy of 223 on a progressive

[michael1one]

I notice that bulk 223 ammo is not that accurate.  I would say that I am getting between 3-4 MOA with cheap ammo like Wolf.  Is that what others are seeing?  I am wondering if i load my own 223 in a progressive, will i get more accuracy?  Maybe 2 MOA?  What about a single stage? Will I be able to get 1 MOA?  Thanks,

[PaladinPrecision]

It's really a function of what the starting barrel quality is. If you have a Bartlein barrel to start with, hitting 1 moa with my bulk 55 gr hosing ammo isn't hard to do. If your using a rack grade barrel then that changes things up a bit. With H335, hornady 55gr, Lake City brass, and a good batch of Rem 7 1/2 primers I get excellent accuracy out of even my hosing ammo, with my Noveske or Criterion barrels it holds MOA when I do my job behind the gun. I have found that the more accurate powders are going to be stick type. But H322 flows like water in my dillon powder measure and gets a little bit better SD/ ES than H335, but sacrifices velocity. I don't mind that so much in three gun especially. The key is good dies like my redding, good brass prep and making sure that your bumping back the shoulder without excessively working the brass and I use a custom honed full length sizing die by forester products. Check the consistency of the powder throw, cartridge OAL and runnout at the bullet. Not using a standard sizing die that pulls the sizing button through the neck helps considerably with runnout at the bullet.

Short answer, nice ammo can be made on a progressive press. I actually even load my precision rifle ammo on my 650, I just use a powder funnel on the powder station instead of a powder dispenser.

 

[Dan Sierpina]

Bullet quality has a huge impact in group size.

[Cotys]

I've seen similar results with cheap ammo out of a standard carbine.  I had some Silver Bear that was probably 5 MOA.  

 

I've had great results with the XL-650 and loading long range ammo.  I have a Krieger match barrel with a 1:7.7 twist.  My favorite load is 75 grain Hornady BTHP with TAC or RL15 powders.  These are sub-MOA out of the progressive.  I've taken many prairie dogs at 800 meters, a few at 900 meters.  We are trying to find terrain this year that would allow us to do some 1000 meter work.  

 

I have also loaded some of the 55 grain Varmint Nightmare bullets from MidSouth Shooter Supply.  I don't have as much experience with these, but they did pretty good for me last year.  They only sell them bulk and they are about 1/2 price of most varmint bullets.  

 

On a two day hunting trip, we'll shoot  a minimum of 500 rounds each and have gone through as many as a 1,000.  Loading that much on a single stage would be painful!  

[mpeltier]

To answer your question, yes you can make match quality ammo on a progressive press. I use a Dillon XL650 and have shot groups as small as .43" at 100yds with my Krieger barreled AR. Easily achive 1" groups when I do my part. Now, theres always three parts to shooting groups that small, the rifle, the ammo and the shooter. If ones not up to the task it may be difficult to obtain your goal. 

Edited March 30, 2017 by mpeltier

[dauntedfuture]

There is a huge difference among "bulk ammo".  The Russian stuff is mostly junk, I have tried a few boxes out of a few guns and it just plain does not shoot well.  Most of the other 55g FMJ stuff shoots ok to pretty good depending on the mfg and the lot.  

 

Most of your accuracy is dependent on bullet selection.  There is no standard for match anything.  Your never going to get a junk bullet to shoot well.  I've had no luck getting the privi "match" ammo to shoot for example and the hornady 55 fMJ shoot much better than some others.  

[michael1one]

2 hours ago, dauntedfuture said:

Most of your accuracy is dependent on bullet selection.  There is no standard for match anything.  Your never going to get a junk bullet to shoot well.  

 

 

Thats what I would think but as PaladinPrecision posted above, could buying a match barrel allow me to shoot 1moa with cheap ammo.  When you shoot thousands of rounds, ammo price starts becoming a factor.  

[dauntedfuture]

No, a better barrel is not going to make wolf shoot much better.  I've tried wolf and privi out of several Krueger barreled service rifles and it still sucks.  

 

Years ago ago when you had to shoot mil-ball 7.62 NATO in Palma competition guys did work to find what they could do to get bad bullets to shoot better. They did find tight bores and odd grove barrels and slow twist rates would shoot bad bullets better.   

 

You can buy 55 FMJ ball for like 300.00 per k and that's going to far outshoot the cheap Russian stuff.  Proper copper jackets will also make a barrel last longer than shooting bimetal steel bullets.  

[chbrow10]

I have grouped factory American eagle bulk 55 gr FMJ at about 2-2.5 inches and bulk 55gr hornady 55 gr FMJ on the same day at less than once inch. This is out of a nothing special barrel. I agree that the barrel and the bullet matter, but it seems just having a consistent OAL and powder charge makes a big difference too.

[CharlieD]

For accurate cheap ammo I would go with Stand 1 Armory or Freedom Munitions 55g reloads.  I get sub MOA 100yd groups out of my Stretch 16 barrel as  well as my Adam's Arms COR ultralight.

[Flatland Shooter]

How accurate do you need?  I load 77 gr Nosler CC JHP bullets on a Dillon 550,  I've found it to be very accurate in my two carbines with Black Hole Weaponry barrels.  I have a couple targets I saved that have 5 shot 100 yard groups just under 3/8" (center to center).

 

Another aspect, how accurate are you?  The reason I ask is I thought I was doing good shooting 1-1/2" groups at 200 yards. This was shortly after breaking in a new 16" barrel and running a 6-18x scope.

 

A member of the local club where I practice is a retired military sniper and offered to shoot my gun.  His first 5 shot 200 yard group was under 7/8".  He did note we had a bit of a cross wind.

 

Bought a lottery ticket on the way home from the range.  It did not hit.

[caspian guy]

1 hour ago, dauntedfuture said:

No, a better barrel is not going to make wolf shoot much better.  I've tried wolf and privi out of several Krueger barreled service rifles and it still sucks.  

 

Years ago ago when you had to shoot mil-ball 7.62 NATO in Palma competition guys did work to find what they could do to get bad bullets to shoot better. They did find tight bores and odd grove barrels and slow twist rates would shoot bad bullets better.   

 

You can buy 55 FMJ ball for like 300.00 per k and that's going to far outshoot the cheap Russian stuff.  Proper copper jackets will also make a barrel last longer than shooting bimetal steel bullets.  

Which is why my dear old sp1 with the 1:12 barrel shoots cheap 55s better than my 1:7twist 3gun rifle.  if we switch the bullets to Hornady 55s however the 1:7 gun shoots them in little tiny groups...  the faster you twist it, the more the quality of the bullet matters.

[pjb45]

Dillon 1050 produces 1/3 MOA out of JP barrels. 

 

Is that good enough?

[Cotys]

I've had the 650 for 10 years or so.  I love it, wish I had bought a 1050!  Even more progressive blue.

 

29 minutes ago, pjb45 said:

Dillon 1050 produces 1/3 MOA out of JP barrels. 

 

Is that good enough?

 

[pjb45]

I am pretty lazy.  I dearly love the down stroke priming.  The extra station is great for a Lee Undersize Die for Glock 40 brass.

 

I took off the swage.  Purchased a super swage for 223/5.56.

 

I had extra tool heads for 38SC, 40s&w, 9mm, and 223 and the trimmer.  I don't reload 223 anymore.  Too much prep work for me. 

 

Blue is great!  Great service.

[Bamboo]

John Widden loads on a 650..  He does weigh the charges individually, though. 

David Tubb loads on a 550.  Somewhere there is a youtube vid of how he loads. 

Both these guys have done pretty well on the long ranges. 

 

i have both a 550 and a 650, and while either works fine for rifle and load better than the bulk stuff you can buy, I like loading .223/.308 on the 550 better.  The case head sits on the platform and not captured by the rim on the plate.  Even using mixed range brass and a decent bullet like the Hornady or Midway/Midsouth varmint bullets I get 1" @100 with no special effort.   

 

 

[dauntedfuture]

when I was shooting NRA LR more I loaded all my 1k ammo on a 550.  I still load a little here and there with it.  I use a powder die from a 450 in the powder station and pause on the down stroke to dump in powder and then onto bullet seating.  

[fedupflyer]

On a Dillion 650 and using their powder drop in full progressive mode, I am getting  under 1 MOA out of a BCM barrel with 55g FMJ Hornday and range pickup brass.

[rustybayonet]

On Thursday, March 30, 2017 at 2:52 AM, michael1one said:

I notice that bulk 223 ammo is not that accurate.  I would say that I am getting between 3-4 MOA with cheap ammo like Wolf.  Is that what others are seeing?  I am wondering if i load my own 223 in a progressive, will i get more accuracy?  Maybe 2 MOA?  What about a single stage? Will I be able to get 1 MOA?  Thanks,

As others stated accuracy has to do with all components being the same. One guy I grew up with was on the Army shooting team. He said they would weigh bullets, primers and cases so the ones that they used were exactlly the same. As far as a press goes my 550 has excellant consistency when using a good powder. AR Comp meters great.

[Jts2581]

Out of cheap store bought ammo I prob get 2MOA.  Usually when I reload my cheap 55gr rounds it cuts that in half.  Of coarse there is a ton of factors that go into it.  But generally I find that a reload as long as its done properly is usually more accurate than the cheaper store bought 55.  I use the bulk hornady 55gr with cant and H335  and load on a 650.  But I also load my long range ammo on the same press with a 77gr bullet and is 1/2 MOA or better.  A progressive press is fine for loading accurate ammo.

Edited May 26, 2017 by Jts2581