Jump to content
Brian Enos's Forums... Maku mozo!

Favorite / least favorite rule


MikeBurgess

Recommended Posts

We have lots of rules, I'm sure everyone has some they like more than others and some that drive them nuts. lets see what they are.

 

Mine,

Favorite, 1.1.6 Difficulty – USPSA matches present varied degrees of difficulty. No shooting challenge or time limit may be appealed as being prohibitive. This does not apply to non-shooting challenges, which should reasonably allow for differences in competitor’s height and physical build.

 

As a MD I like hard stages and shots in my matches.

 

Least Favorite 4.3.1.6 - Unlike Poppers, metal plates are not subject to calibration or calibration challenges. If a scoring metal plate has been hit but fails to fall or overturn, the Range Officer shall declare range equipment failure and order the competitor to reshoot the course of fire, after the faulty plate has been rectified.

 

I think there is no reason we shouldn't be ably to shoot a plate that got nicked and did not fall, the way it is now we don't use plates at most high level matches due to the fear of reshoots, if a plate spins and doesn't fall that is an easy REF call for the RO 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Favorite-  1.1.5  Freestyle 

 

Least Favorite-  10.2.1  A competitor who fires shots while any part of their body is touching the ground or while stepping on an object beyond a Shooting Box or a Fault Line, or who gains support or stability through contact with an object which is wholly beyond and not attached to a Shooting Box or Fault Line, will receive one procedural penalty for each occurrence. However, if the competitor has gained a significant advantage on any target(s) while faulting, the competitor may instead be assessed one procedural penalty for each shot fired at the subject target(s) while faulting. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 hours ago, MAC702 said:

Least favorite (off top of head): Appendix D5, #2, #4, and #9, allowing a Minor PF in SS Division, especially with a higher magazine capacity.

 

+1  The scoring I can understand. Extra rounds makes no sense to me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 3/28/2017 at 9:49 PM, MAC702 said:

Least favorite (off top of head): Appendix D5, #2, #4, and #9, allowing a Minor PF in SS Division, especially with a higher magazine capacity.

 

lol, since i usually shoot SS minor, I like that rule.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 3/29/2017 at 0:12 AM, Nik Habicht said:

Least: The entire popper calibration procedure.  Competitors get hosed......

 

competitors generally only get hosed by inattentive RO's. Manage your steel, keep the RM away, keep shooters happy. We check and adjust as necessary between every squad or 2.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 3/29/2017 at 8:32 PM, jwhittin said:

 

+1  The scoring I can understand. Extra rounds makes no sense to me.

 

It puts the two guns on pretty equal footing most of the time. I shoot both major and minor, and depending on the match setup, it can be 1-2% better to choose one or the other (at my skill level), but it mostly comes down to execution. The better and more disciplined you shoot, the better major works out.

 

In my utopia, SS and production would merge with 8-major or 10-minor for everyone. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, motosapiens said:

It puts the two guns on pretty equal footing most of the time.

 

In my mind, the lower scores for minor loads levels the playing field.  But why on earth would you give the minor competitor 2 extra rounds?  That's a HUGE advantage! Where is the logic in that? What am I missing? I wonder what the founding fathers had in mind when they made that rule.   

 

 

31 minutes ago, motosapiens said:

In my utopia, SS and production would merge with 8-major or 10-minor for everyone. 

I'm a purist and love SS. I would hate to see it changed (except for the rules for minor).  Seems to me having a lighter polymer gun (hence more recoil) and the same # of rounds as a steel gun would put a lot of competitors at a slight disadvantage. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, jwhittin said:

 

In my mind, the lower scores for minor loads levels the playing field.  But why on earth would you give the minor competitor 2 extra rounds?  That's a HUGE advantage! Where is the logic in that? What am I missing? I wonder what the founding fathers had in mind when they made that rule.   

 

wait, what? how does lower scoring 'level the playing field'. without the 2 extra rounds, it would be completely idiotic to shoot minor, just like it is in limited. Lower scoring would tilt the playing field sideways. the two extra rounds levels it back out. (I have a couple years of empirical testing to support this claim, since i enjoy shooting both)

 

are you under the impression that you can somehow shoot faster with minor? because that does not really appear to be true for people who practice.

 

I thought the last few years of production nationals put the whole steel/polymer thing to rest. If nils and dave can shoot a crappy glock and stay close to ben who focuses only on production and shoots a heavy steel gun, then steel vs polymer doesn't really make a competitive difference imho.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, motosapiens said:

are you under the impression that you can somehow shoot faster with minor?

I don't compete in minor but yes, just purely from a physics standpoint less recoil = less muzzle rise = faster acquisition.   At the elite level I can see it might not make as much difference. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, jwhittin said:

I don't compete in minor but yes, just purely from a physics standpoint less recoil = less muzzle rise = faster acquisition.   At the elite level I can see it might not make as much difference. 

have you actually tried it? and compared times? I'm nowhere near elite (A class), but I am a math nerd. I shot my best steel challenge times over the last few years shooting 45 major. The only place i found 9mm to be any advantage (and only a tenth or so) was on hoser stages like can you count. It was a little counterintuitive, but I've been shooting a lot of both for a couple years now, and keeping good records.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 3/28/2017 at 11:10 PM, George Jones said:

Favorite:  9.5.6 - The minimum score for a course of fire or string will be zero.

 

:wub:

Oh yes. How many classifiers I would have with negative points if it wasn't for this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, jwhittin said:

In my mind, the lower scores for minor loads levels the playing field.

 

If that were true then everyone would shoot minor for Limited and get a few extra rounds in the mag (hint: no one who wants to be competitive shoots minor in Limited) ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Southpaw said:

If that were true then everyone would shoot minor for Limited and get a few extra rounds in the mag (hint: no one who wants to be competitive shoots minor in Limited) ;)

For a typical field course, SS is planning 4 reloads in a stage while Limited is planning where to make his 1 reload in a stage.  And with stages being designed for 8 rounds per view, having 8 or 10 is a HUGE difference, nothing like deciding between 17 and 22 rounds.  And while it's a separate problem, it is a fact that many Level 1 matches are very poor at knowing how to properly design an 8-round neutral course.

 

That said, I don't want to sound like I'm whining; this thread just asked what I hated, without expecting a debate on it.  It's settled rules, and I deal with it.  But I'll make counterpoints when available.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 hours ago, motosapiens said:

have you actually tried it? and compared times? I'm nowhere near elite (A class), but I am a math nerd. I shot my best steel challenge times over the last few years shooting 45 major. The only place i found 9mm to be any advantage (and only a tenth or so) was on hoser stages like can you count. It was a little counterintuitive, but I've been shooting a lot of both for a couple years now, and keeping good records.

for me with both my 45 and 9mm SS guns I top out at about a .14 split the difference for me is in the scoring, do i want extra points or extra rounds? my problem is I usually need both

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 4/6/2017 at 7:11 PM, motosapiens said:

 

competitors generally only get hosed by inattentive RO's. Manage your steel, keep the RM away, keep shooters happy. We check and adjust as necessary between every squad or 2.

Call the RM every-time you adjust too, right?  You're not going to convince me, that calibration is perfect when a competitor centerpunches a popper and it doesn't fall, but it falls to the RM's bullet minutes later.....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, Nik Habicht said:

Call the RM every-time you adjust too, right?

 

There is no need for that. It is within the RO's responsibility / power to adjust the steel on their bay to keep it properly set. Like @motosapiens said, they should be  aggressive in adjusting it throughout the day to keep it reliable and consistent.

 

This was spelled out explicitly by DNROI in a recent letter which was published in Front Sight, as many RO's mistakenly believe they aren't allowed to touch popper settings during the match without the RM's explicit say so.

 

An RM is needed only for formal calibration calls made by a competitor.

 

 

Edited by MemphisMechanic
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, Nik Habicht said:

Call the RM every-time you adjust too, right?  You're not going to convince me, that calibration is perfect when a competitor centerpunches a popper and it doesn't fall, but it falls to the RM's bullet minutes later.....

 

nope. the RM's I have worked with have been pretty specific that I have no need to bother them until a competitor calls for calibration. They instructed us to keep track of the steel and adjust as necessary. the last 3 majors I have worked have had zero poppers fail to fall on a good hit. I check it after every squad.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...