JAFO Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 The 320 (fullsize and compact) is on the list. Slides are allowed to be milled for dots in CO, and the RX is just a 320 milled at the factory that has a dot included in the package. Because it comes with a dot, it can't be shot in Production as you buy it so it will never be on the list. See the irony? All the different model designations make the Sig approved list a real pain. It would be so much simpler if it just said 226, 229, 320, etc, with the caveats they already have for no SAO and no magwell grips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAFO Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 3 hours ago, Garmil said: Says for Installing sights and for no other purpose. Allowing a red dot to be mounted and allowing a cover plate to be applied is another purpose. Devil's Advocate: A red dot is a sight, albeit an optical one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garmil Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 22 minutes ago, JAFO said: The 320 (fullsize and compact) is on the list. Slides are allowed to be milled for dots in CO, and the RX is just a 320 milled at the factory that has a dot included in the package. Because it comes with a dot, it can't be shot in Production as you buy it so it will never be on the list. See the irony? All the different model designations make the Sig approved list a real pain. It would be so much simpler if it just said 226, 229, 320, etc, with the caveats they already have for no SAO and no magwell grips. I don't see the irony I just see the rx as legal for co and not production unless there is an official ruling saying it is. Glock mos models are separate on the list. 23 minutes ago, JAFO said: Devil's Advocate: A red dot is a sight, albeit an optical one. But a cover plate serves the purpose of filling large cut in the slide when a red dot isn't installed, that's another purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfinney Posted April 1, 2017 Share Posted April 1, 2017 So - the Sig P320 X-Carry will be added to the Production list at some point, and it will be legal in both Production and CO. Since it came from the Factory with a cover plate like the Glock MOS. But a P320 RX could never be considered to be added to the Production list because it does not come with a factory cover option. What if Sig offers one later as an accessory, and then asked for that model to be added to list? Similar to an X-Carry? Also, if I mill a Production legal Glock 17 for CO, and then later remove the Red Dot and replace with a custom cover, the gun would now be illegal for Production? Yup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete627 Posted April 1, 2017 Share Posted April 1, 2017 Looks like they will be out there ... One example of an aftermarket cover to cover an aftermarket slide cut ... http://primarymachine.com/3d-printed-rmr-cover-plate-for-glock/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garmil Posted April 1, 2017 Share Posted April 1, 2017 Sfinney sig would have to sell a p320 carry with a cover plate not just offer the accessory I believe. pete that cover looks it may count as a different slide contour on top of the other issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfinney Posted April 1, 2017 Share Posted April 1, 2017 (edited) 6 hours ago, Garmil said: Sfinney sig would have to sell a p320 carry with a cover plate not just offer the accessory I believe. Like the Sig P320 X-Five and X-Carry will have. Does offering the part on the X-Carry (assuming that model gets approved for production) open the door to milling an RX to accept that same Sig factory supplied cover, and then be legal for Production as just another P320? Edited April 1, 2017 by sfinney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garmil Posted April 1, 2017 Share Posted April 1, 2017 opens the door yeah but the door is already open. I don't think that would make it legal under current rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trgt Posted April 1, 2017 Share Posted April 1, 2017 With regard to cover plate for my CZ, to allow a slide milled for optics to be repurposed back to production, if that was OK (milling ONLY for optic to be covered back to stock profile, with rear sight attached)", this is email I got from Troy McManus last summer, as I thought I has seen email or ruling, but couldn't find it. "I think it was probably an email response, but that should not render your pistol non-compliant for Production, since there are other commercially available guns like this. I'm kind of tied up with Nationals right now, but as soon as I can get to it, I'll probably issue a ruling regarding this for Production." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trgt Posted April 1, 2017 Share Posted April 1, 2017 17 hours ago, Garmil said: ... But a cover plate serves the purpose of filling large cut in the slide when a red dot isn't installed, that's another purpose. Or it could be the attachment point for a rear sight when the rear sight is attached to it, so I'd argue that would fall under the language about site mounting. But that doesn't cover all the cases -- if you had optic milled forward of rear sight to co-witness, then it's exactly as you state just plate to fill a cut, not related to rear sight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdp88 Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 Can you also make modifications to the frame in CO? IE: removing finger grooves on a glock? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAFO Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 16 hours ago, tdp88 said: Can you also make modifications to the frame in CO? IE: removing finger grooves on a glock? Yes. See App D7: 21.4 Grips Replacement grip panels are allowed provided they do not extend below the butt of the gun to form a make-shift magwell. Grip modifications such as, but not limited to, undercutting/smoothing the trigger guard, adding or removing finger grooves, or adding stippling, grip tape, or checkering are specifically allowed, without reference to Appendix E4. Grip tape or grip sleeves cannot disengage a grip safety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAFO Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 On 3/31/2017 at 6:24 PM, Garmil said: But a cover plate serves the purpose of filling large cut in the slide when a red dot isn't installed, that's another purpose. An RX model is a 320 milled for an optical sight, so if a shooter removes the optical sight and does NOT install a cover plate, would you then consider that legal? The slide has only been milled for the purpose of installing a sight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garmil Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 That would not be legal for production or carry optics. P320 RX is not on the production list and a gun with no dot isn't legal in carry optics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAFO Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 CO is Production-approved guns with dots. The 320RX, by that model designation, isn't on the approved list. But the 320RX is nothing more than a bundle of a 320 and a Romeo 1 red dot marketed under the name 320RX. So if you're going to let it play in CO, it has to be treated like a 320 with a dot, which means if you remove the dot, it's a 320. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garmil Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 No. Guns can be specifically approved for co. That's how the 320 rx is legal for co. Not because it's close to the same as a regular 320 that is on the list. m&p core is essentially the same scenario you are describing and it is seperate on the production list like the rx would need to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alma Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 1 hour ago, Garmil said: No. Guns can be specifically approved for co. That's how the 320 rx is legal for co. Not because it's close to the same as a regular 320 that is on the list. What's this list you are saying the RX is explicitly listed on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garmil Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 6 minutes ago, alma said: What's this list you are saying the RX is explicitly listed on? Not sure if there is a list I'm referring to the line in special conditions. Assuming since the rx isn't on the production list that they filed the form for carry optics given people are using them without issues. There should be a list available since they make it known guns can be on one list and not the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alma Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 25 minutes ago, Garmil said: Not sure if there is a list I'm referring to the line in special conditions. Assuming since the rx isn't on the production list that they filed the form for carry optics given people are using them without issues. There should be a list available since they make it known guns can be on one list and not the other. But there isn't one you can point to I'm assuming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garmil Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 1 minute ago, alma said: But there isn't one you can point to I'm assuming. Correct. Is there a list you can point to with the p320 rx on it approved for production? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alma Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 6 hours ago, Garmil said: Correct. Is there a list you can point to with the p320 rx on it approved for production? The P320 itself is on the Production list and the one that comes with the same profile slide but with an optics cut (RX) seems to have been close enough too the standard model to take three of the top five places in Carry Optics at Optics Nationals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garmil Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 (edited) Without a red dot the rx has a huge cut in the slide that's hardly the same profile as what's on the list. I hear what you're saying and it's been treated like it's legal. have you seen anyone use an rx without a dot in production? Do you think it would be ok at a major with just leaving the cut open in the slide? Edited May 18, 2017 by Garmil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alma Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 12 hours ago, Garmil said: Without a red dot the rx has a huge cut in the slide that's hardly the same profile as what's on the list. I hear what you're saying and it's been treated like it's legal. have you seen anyone use an rx without a dot in production? Do you think it would be ok at a major with just leaving the cut open in the slide? I think it's a dumb idea anyway so this seems like a moot point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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