BoyGlock Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 Hi guys, Trying to wet my feet on this new endeavor. I plan or say intend to reload .223 (only) for my personal consumption in 3g games. The way I see it as of today It wont be high volume unlike pistol ammo. My reloadin experience is exclusively on pistol cals. in my old 550b. with .38, 357, .40, 9, .38sup. I have a Lee single stage that I used soley for push-thru resizing my .40 shells years ago and now sitting idly on the bench. My idea is to make my set up as simple as can be as this is my very first time in reloading a rifle cartridge. This is more of learning than anything else So I intend to get Dillon dies for resizing, decapping, etc. For case trimming, Lee Deluxe Quick Trim Case Trimmer. I will set up the dies in 550b and the trimmer in the single stage press. If a separate tool head is needed in the 550 for other stages of reloading it will be ok with me. The Lee trimmer looks very attractive to me in price and function as there are very few parts to set up or worry about. My key word for now is simplicity in set up and function so I can focus more on the technical requirements. I dont want to frustrate myself this early that I might give up. My sole source of this idea is the 'net so I take it with lots of grains of salts. Will this work as my starter set up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2MoreChains Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 When I first started loading .223 I quickly realized that as with most rifle reloading most of the effort is in brass prep. I do my brass prep using a single stage press and once the prep is done I switch to the Dillon 550 for charging and seating the bullet. Brass prep essentially looks like this: Sizing/decapping die is in the single stage press. After tumbling I sort my brass from .223 and any 5.56mm that has a crimped primer. The .223 brass is resized/decapped then checked using a case gauge for headspace and length. Any brass that needs trimmed is set aside. For 5.56 brass with the crimp, I size/decap and headspace gauge it, but then add an extra step with a Dillon swagger to remove the primer crimp. Any brass that needs trimmed is set aside to be trimmed. Once all the brass prep is done I move over to the Dillon 550. Station 1 of the tool head is empty since all the brass has already been sized and deprimed. Station 2 has the powder die and measurer. Station 3 is the seating die, and Station 4 is the crimp die. At this point the operation is essentially the same as loading pistol, minus the sizing, but I still need to seat the primer on the upstroke. I suppose if all I had was .223 brass with no mil crimp the brass prep would be much simpler and I could probably do it all on the Dillon 550, however my brass is all range pickup and there's always a bunch of 5.56 brass mixed in especially if I am scrounging brass at a match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiggerJJ Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 Why not use the Lee trimmer on the press opposite the size die? Then you do the processing in one pass. Tumble the lube off, then change to the loading head... I do this on my 650 for 260 precision ammo; one head to process, and one head to load. My powder drop is trickled individually and added to the primed case in the press before seating... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dauntedfuture Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 I suggest that you consider buying prepared to load brass and then just run it through your 550. You save yourself some grief and you know you have reliable brass. .10 brass + .03 primer + .07 powder + .07 bullet = .27 or less. Then if you can, keep that brass and reload it. Most streatching is done after the first firing and sizing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoyGlock Posted March 24, 2017 Author Share Posted March 24, 2017 Thank you! Just what I was looking for! The processing stages. I have saved lots of .223 shells in my previous shootings and others' who are not into reloading so brass prep is where Im a bit concerned about. That primer swaging tool, is it bought separately? So my intended tools are good to go? I forgot to mention my locality is not in US so most supplies are restricted. But I can have options a bit more than the minimum I will need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Donald Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 You can buy a swage tool a couple different ways, one the Dillon 600 that is complete on it's own. Personally I had one didn't like how it swaged. Second is Hornaday makes a swage tool that supports the brass upside down for a single stage press. I got some brass that was swaged on the Hornaday tooling on their A&P press, nicest swaged brass I've used. The tool is under $60 at Midway if you already have a single stage or turret press. Last is a Hornaday or Lyman Crimp cutter for $10 threaded into a 8-32 coupling nut run in a drill or drill press, This is what I use really does a nice job on all 223 brass. Also swap in a Griard Tricutter to cut and trim the brass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M1A4ME Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 (edited) I do my brass in batches. You can sort it, or not. Exactly which steps in which order work for you is up to you. I'll clean it and put it in a jug with a lid. One day I'll pull a jug out and resize a bunch and then put that away in a jug with a lid on it. Another day I'll prime a jug of brass and put that away with a lid on it. (edited to change resize to prime) One day I'll grab that jug and put powder and bullets in that brass. I very seldom, and only a few pieces (to fill out a box of ammo or a magazine of ammo), will I resize, prime, powder and seat bullets in during the same reloading bench session. On pretty days I'm sitting on the sunny bench in front of the garage sorting, trimming, priming brass. On rainy days I can sit in the garage at the reloading bench resize brass or reload primed brass. Edited March 27, 2017 by M1A4ME Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoyGlock Posted March 25, 2017 Author Share Posted March 25, 2017 I like the idea of doing the prepping and loading by batch separately. Thats a handy way of breaking down a complicated chore. By d way I read somewhere here some are using rifle primers on .38 super major and magnum loads. But pistol primer on .223 loads is not possible for safety sake, right? I know its dumb to ask this but just want to be sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M1A4ME Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 I wouldn't. I've only used pistol primers in my .300 BO loads one time. The loads were lower pressure loads, by the book/manual, but I got pierced primers anyway with H110. Not all of them, but just about half. No pierced primers with the AA 1680 loads though, but I decided to stick to small rifle primers after that range trip anyway. .223 is quite a bit higher pressure than the .300 BO loads I was shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rustybayonet Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 On Friday, March 24, 2017 at 4:02 AM, 2MoreChains said: When I first started loading .223 I quickly realized that as with most rifle reloading most of the effort is in brass prep. I do my brass prep using a single stage press and once the prep is done I switch to the Dillon 550 for charging and seating the bullet. Brass prep essentially looks like this: Sizing/decapping die is in the single stage press. After tumbling I sort my brass from .223 and any 5.56mm that has a crimped primer. The .223 brass is resized/decapped then checked using a case gauge for headspace and length. Any brass that needs trimmed is set aside. For 5.56 brass with the crimp, I size/decap and headspace gauge it, but then add an extra step with a Dillon swagger to remove the primer crimp. Any brass that needs trimmed is set aside to be trimmed. Once all the brass prep is done I move over to the Dillon 550. Station 1 of the tool head is empty since all the brass has already been sized and deprimed. Station 2 has the powder die and measurer. Station 3 is the seating die, and Station 4 is the crimp die. At this point the operation is essentially the same as loading pistol, minus the sizing, but I still need to seat the primer on the upstroke. I suppose if all I had was .223 brass with no mil crimp the brass prep would be much simpler and I could probably do it all on the Dillon 550, however my brass is all range pickup and there's always a bunch of 5.56 brass mixed in especially if I am scrounging brass at a match. +1 , I have a 550 and a rock chucker but only use the 550. I size deprime the brass, give it a tumble to clean the lube. Off to the lyman trimmer, then the lyman case prep center to pretty up the mouth and primer pocket. I pull the size die off the tool head and load them up same as pistol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoyGlock Posted March 27, 2017 Author Share Posted March 27, 2017 Is 5.56 brass interchangeable with .223? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixxerjunky Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 I just went through this as well and began with .223. My advice is get ready for a totally new amount of work. It's completely different then pistol loading and takes twice as long. I have a pretty slick set up and still working out the steps to get proficient at it. Here is my equipment and steps. Brass prep tool head:Dillion resizer in station oneRT-1200 in station 3Lyman M expander in station 5AND I just got a Swage It that I'll run during brass prep. Loading tool head:Powder measure in station twoPowder check in 3Dillon seating die in 4Dillion crimp die in 5Ok my steps are as follows. Universal deprime dirty brass either single stage or run through the 650. Stainless tumble brassLube brassRun through brass prep tool headStainless tumbleSwage with Dillon swagerRun through loading tool headNow on the Swage it I will get to skip running them through the Dillon swager. To me that takes the longest. I am also going to change up a little bit and see how it goes with these steps. Stainless tumble dirty brass with primers in - 2 hours. Lube brass and run through brass prep tool head. Stainless tumble again with no primers - 2 hours (hopefully that cleans primer pockets)Run through loading toolhead. That might look easy but stainless tumbling eats up a LOT of time but man the brass is clean after words. I also sorted my brass to all of lake city for load development and then just use whatever powder charge I get with all brass. There are already to many steps to .223 and sorting by headstand I'm not interested in. Here are my first reloads at 100 yards w/ iron sights 24.7, 25.0, and 25.3 (not pictured) of H335 @ 2.200. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve RA Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 I just use LC and sell the rest. If you stick to one brand of brass it works a lot better from an accuracy standpoint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushmeat Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 OP, I take it that you're shooting 3gun in the Philippines. So you're not really going further out than 100 yards/meters. You would be well served with a hosing load using 55/62 fmj (whatever you can get there), ball power like 748 or 2230, and mixed brass. I easily get sub-inch groups with my loads with mixed brass out to 100 yards. That allows you to avoid tedious brass sorting. I think brass sorting comes into its own when you're running 69-77 smks out to 750. IMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surgdog Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 8 hours ago, gixxerjunky said: AND I just got a Swage It that I'll run during brass prep I have a lot of brass from rifle competition people don't pick up and started processing. I have prep tool head just like you and added the Swage It. I really like it.Since its new I have been checking my primer pockets with a gauge and it is giving excellent results as far as the gauge goes. The only problem is that the Lyman M die sometimes flares the mouth too much and I have to rerun it. It must happen with longer brass since it doesn't happen with everyone even though I have adjusted it several times. But at any rate the Swage It takes a whole separate step out by doing the swaging on the "prep" tool head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixxerjunky Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 I have a lot of brass from rifle competition people don't pick up and started processing. I have prep tool head just like you and added the Swage It. I really like it.Since its new I have been checking my primer pockets with a gauge and it is giving excellent results as far as the gauge goes. The only problem is that the Lyman M die sometimes flares the mouth too much and I have to rerun it. It must happen with longer brass since it doesn't happen with everyone even though I have adjusted it several times. But at any rate the Swage It takes a whole separate step out by doing the swaging on the "prep" tool head.Yea I swaged a few hundred on the Dillon tool and said if there is a way that I can get my press to do it I'm buying it. .223 loading is WAY different but I feel when I get all of the steps down and everything smoothed out it will go quicker. One problem is those damn little 55 for Bullet's. they are are hard to grab correctly. Over all it didn't go to bad for me and having a lot of blasting ammo is fun. I'm looking for accuracy of a 8" plate at 100 yards so nothing to accurate will work for me. I have my precision bolt guns for accuracy. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoyGlock Posted March 28, 2017 Author Share Posted March 28, 2017 5 hours ago, bushmeat said: OP, I take it that you're shooting 3gun in the Philippines. So you're not really going further out than 100 yards/meters. You would be well served with a hosing load using 55/62 fmj (whatever you can get there), ball power like 748 or 2230, and mixed brass. I easily get sub-inch groups with my loads with mixed brass out to 100 yards. That allows you to avoid tedious brass sorting. I think brass sorting comes into its own when you're running 69-77 smks out to 750. IMHO Yup. The farthest Shots I had were 50-75y. So its really not so critical in accuracy department. But 3gun is fast developing here and new ranges are sprouting around. And we are following the western trends. So Im trying to learn as much as I can while time is on my side. But you are quite right. It gives me some leeway for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2MoreChains Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 21 hours ago, BoyGlock said: Is 5.56 brass interchangeable with .223? .223 Wylde chamber and you can shoot either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoyGlock Posted March 28, 2017 Author Share Posted March 28, 2017 49 minutes ago, 2MoreChains said: .223 Wylde chamber and you can shoot either. I mean can I load 556 brass with 223 loading specs and dies? My chamber is 556 and shooting 223. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixxerjunky Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 Yes. You can.Pick up all .223brass and load it. The only additional step is needing to swage the military primers from the military 5.56 loads. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaladinPrecision Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 I reload on my 650 for 9mm - 30-06. I would suggest setting up the most efficient way that YOU are ok with doing. I have a die head for sizing that is 0.002+ the head space I want/ decapping, other stage trimming and then they dump to the bins. When loading 223 it's important to have a case that isn't too long, or one that isn't sized enough. I use a RCBS case mic or a hornady bump set. The digital caliper bump set is easier. Take a couple pieces of NEW brass, even M193XM crap ammo will work. Make sure your gun is safe (gunsmith headspaced), and then fire 3-5 rounds. Measure those. Take average, and that is your chamber shoulder dimension. Push that back 0.003 to setup your sizing die and you should have long brass life without overworking the brass and ammo that chambers. If your loading in volume, I would suggest using a progressive press if your comfortable with it. Makes it WAY easier and you can process sooo much more brass. After getting a brass sizing and cleaning routine / bullet/ case feeder. i can't imagine going back to a single stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoyGlock Posted March 30, 2017 Author Share Posted March 30, 2017 Is wet tumbling necessary? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kraj Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 2 hours ago, BoyGlock said: Is wet tumbling necessary? No. It's just makes it look pretty and adds a bunch of work. Dry tumbling is fine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimm609 Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 it's certainly not necessary but it does get the brass much cleaner. I like wet tumbling much better but as Kraj said, dry tumbling is fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoyGlock Posted April 2, 2017 Author Share Posted April 2, 2017 Thanks. Is the Dillon resizing die good enough to re-form the neck and shoulder back to specs? Or is another die needed to do this separate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now