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Too many rounds in mag for Production?


B_RAD

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Technically, although it is generally by firing too many rounds that a shooter gets caught, the rule actually states one cannot have more than 10 rounds loaded in any magazine at the start signal.  Hence, if you have a 17 found mag, fully loaded, fired 8, and the RO found it on the ground with LOADS of ammo in it, the rule says you go to Open.

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2 hours ago, Schutzenmeister said:

Technically, although it is generally by firing too many rounds that a shooter gets caught, the rule actually states one cannot have more than 10 rounds loaded in any magazine at the start signal.  Hence, if you have a 17 found mag, fully loaded, fired 8, and the RO found it on the ground with LOADS of ammo in it, the rule says you go to Open.

This was to stop people from loading up their mags to make their gun heavier, to manage recoil better, I would bet.

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1 hour ago, motosapiens said:

and RO's are smart. Had a guy on my squad at A3 get bumped to open because on an empty gun start, he fired 10 rounds, and didn't go to slide-lock or have to rack the slide when he reloaded.

super easy mistake to make.  have that "first" mag loaded to 11 for a loaded start stage and forget it's an unloaded start stage.

 

in idpa you get a procedural.  i was late to a match, rushing and all, jumped on a squad and stage with my 10+1.  was an unloaded start and in the rush i wasn't paying attention.  when i finished the first array and slide didn't lock back i mentally (slowly) was trying to figure out what happened.  did i miss a target and thus only fired 8?  then i had to reload (standing) halfway thru the next target and array.  so totally bungled the stage and then had the procedural handed to me, insult to injury.

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5 hours ago, motosapiens said:

and RO's are smart. Had a guy on my squad at A3 get bumped to open because on an empty gun start, he fired 10 rounds, and didn't go to slide-lock or have to rack the slide when he reloaded.

Which might have been fine, if he dumped a nine round mag on the ground somewhere between the start and where he fired the first shot....

 

Hey -- if there's enough time and distance, load the gun, and immediately reload -- especially if firing ten very early on without a reload is the best move....

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17 hours ago, GrumpyOne said:

This was to stop people from loading up their mags to make their gun heavier, to manage recoil better, I would bet.

Then, I think, you would probably bet wrong.

 

There's no effective way to prevent a shooter from adding weight to the bottom of his 10-round mags to achieve the same effect without using ammo to do it.  I suspect, though I don't have this on certainty, it was to provide a strong disincentive against shooters who would overload, use the extra rounds, and hope the RO didn't catch it.

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36 minutes ago, Schutzenmeister said:

Then, I think, you would probably bet wrong.

 

There's no effective way to prevent a shooter from adding weight to the bottom of his 10-round mags to achieve the same effect without using ammo to do it.  I suspect, though I don't have this on certainty, it was to provide a strong disincentive against shooters who would overload, use the extra rounds, and hope the RO didn't catch it.

Unfortunately,  you would be incorrect. At chrono, you weigh your gun with an empty mag inserted. You are allowed 2 oz over the listed weight. If they added weight to the mag, they would be bumped to open, since they do not meet the division requirements. 

 

As for hoping the RO didn't notice, that's why there are usually 2 RO's that run a stage. Even if both RO's failed to notice that you fired more than 11 rounds, I'm quite sure the gallery watching you shoot your stage would notice.

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3 minutes ago, GrumpyOne said:

Unfortunately,  you would be incorrect. At chrono, you weigh your gun with an empty mag inserted. You are allowed 2 oz over the listed weight. If they added weight to the mag, they would be bumped to open, since they do not meet the division requirements. 

 

OK ... I've checked my gun at home and I know I've got my full 2 oz to spare ... I put 1.5 oz in each mag to achieve what we're talking about and still have .5 oz to spare.  That's roughly the equivalent of 4-5 extra rounds of 9mm, from a weight perspective.  And I would still meet Division requirements.

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4 minutes ago, Schutzenmeister said:

 

OK ... I've checked my gun at home and I know I've got my full 2 oz to spare ... I put 1.5 oz in each mag to achieve what we're talking about and still have .5 oz to spare.  That's roughly the equivalent of 4-5 extra rounds of 9mm, from a weight perspective.  And I would still meet Division requirements.

and you wouldn't actually shoot any better or more accurately, lol. I would spend the time practicing instead of trying to make my mags heavier.

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9 minutes ago, Schutzenmeister said:

 

OK ... I've checked my gun at home and I know I've got my full 2 oz to spare ... I put 1.5 oz in each mag to achieve what we're talking about and still have .5 oz to spare.  That's roughly the equivalent of 4-5 extra rounds of 9mm, from a weight perspective.  And I would still meet Division requirements.

 

That's a primary reason for putting Springer base pads on a CZ.

 

And like Moto said, it probably doesn't matter.  (I've been using my stock CZ 18-rd mags for both practice and matches lately, and they work just fine.)

Edited by teros135
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7 minutes ago, motosapiens said:

and you wouldn't actually shoot any better or more accurately, lol. I would spend the time practicing instead of trying to make my mags heavier.

 

THANK YOU!  Someone else who recognizes that a functioning gun and a little practice will get you further than all the stupid gaming tricks in the world!

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36 minutes ago, Schutzenmeister said:

 

OK ... I've checked my gun at home and I know I've got my full 2 oz to spare ... I put 1.5 oz in each mag to achieve what we're talking about and still have .5 oz to spare.  That's roughly the equivalent of 4-5 extra rounds of 9mm, from a weight perspective.  And I would still meet Division requirements.

And you would be cheating, not gaming...unsportsmanlike conduct....do you want to give it a go at your next match and tell us how it works out for you?

 

Edit to add: By giving it a go at your next match,  I meant loading the extra rounds and shooting them to see if the RO noticed or not.

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1 minute ago, GrumpyOne said:

And you would be cheating, not gaming...unsportsmanlike conduct....do you want to give it a go at your next match and tell us how it works out for you?

 

Can you explain what part is cheating? what rule does it break to use heavier basepads while remaining within the weight limits for production?

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2 minutes ago, GrumpyOne said:

And you would be cheating, not gaming...unsportsmanlike conduct....do you want to give it a go at your next match and tell us how it works out for you?

 

What? Sounds like and internal modification to me. As long as it makes weight what's the difference? 

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1 minute ago, motosapiens said:

 

Can you explain what part is cheating? what rule does it break to use heavier basepads while remaining within the weight limits for production?

Cheating would come in if they altered the mag to add more than the stated weight of the gun and mag. I'm not saying that having the mag weigh more is cheating, I'm saying having the entire package of gun and mag weigh more is cheating.

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4 minutes ago, GrumpyOne said:

Cheating would come in if they altered the mag to add more than the stated weight of the gun and mag. I'm not saying that having the mag weigh more is cheating, I'm saying having the entire package of gun and mag weigh more is cheating.

 

looking at the rules, it appears you can alter the mag to add 2 oz more than the stated weight of the gun and mag.

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12 minutes ago, motosapiens said:

 

looking at the rules, it appears you can alter the mag to add 2 oz more than the stated weight of the gun and mag.

True. Cheating would come in if they altered the gun to weigh more than the stated weight ( I omitted the addition of the 2oz as it was a given).

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15 minutes ago, GrumpyOne said:

True. Cheating would come in if they altered the gun to weigh more than the stated weight ( I omitted the addition of the 2oz as it was a given).

Agreed. Welcome to open

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 3/21/2017 at 1:39 PM, B_RAD said:

Does that get a penalty for each round fired after 11 (first mag) or 10 (for reloaded mags)? Or does it bump you into Limited/open?

 

There is no bump to Limited.  You could change your division before starting the match, but if it is an equipment bump, then it is to Open.

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