mlm

Serpa Holsters

26 posts in this topic

What is the real ruling on using these Serpa Holsters with the Trigger lock that needs to be depressed to draw the weapon. I have seen a few of these holsters where the shooter deactivates the release so you just draw and do not depress it to release the weapon.

I would think that if there is a mechanism on  a holster or magazine pouch that has a strap on it is supposed to be used.

Just would like some insight on this issue.

Thanks

Mike

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No, for USPSA all a holster has to do is hold the gun safely and securely.

If someone was going to use that type of holster, I would highly recommend they remove that release. It is an accident waiting to happen.

I don't know what IDPA prohibits.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Posted (edited)

No rule against it.

 

The only rule close to it, which doesn't apply, specifically says a strap and serpa holsters dont have a strap. 

 

 

5.2.5.3 Unless specified in the written stage briefing, or unless required by a Range Officer, the position of holsters and allied equipment on the belt must not be moved or changed by a competitor during a match. If a retaining strap is attached to a holster or magazine pouch, it must be applied or closed prior to issuance of the “Standby” command

Edited by Kraj

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You don't have to use the button in USPSA however in IDPA they require you to use it.

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11 minutes ago, JohnnyD said:

You don't have to use the button in USPSA however in IDPA they require you to use it.

That hasn't been my experience.  At local IDPA matches I've attended, they've encouraged Serpa owners to permanently disable the button for safety's sake.

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That's probably a good idea but the rules say otherwise

 

8.5

L.  All retention devices on the holster must be used. 

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Just now, waktasz said:

That's probably a good idea but the rules say otherwise

 

8.5

L.  All retention devices on the holster must be used. 

Just wondering...If the retention button is broken off and thrown away, does it still count as a retention device?

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I would think not.  I think the rules used to say it couldn't be temporarily disabled (for example, by cramming a foam ear plug under the lever), but if it's permanently gone I suppose it's impossible to use it. 

 

 

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Given the two "almost in the foot" ADs I've personally seen a novice shooter commit while going faster than they should have?

 

I'd rewrite the rules to say "those POSs are banned unless the retention button is removed" if it were up to me.

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So there is no real rule in USPSA banning this holster. If the individual club says to disengage it is on them(the club) or on the shooter for disabling the trigger release. We are not talking about IDPA here.

Thanks for the input.

Mike

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2 hours ago, mlm said:

So there is no real rule in USPSA banning this holster. If the individual club says to disengage it is on them(the club) or on the shooter for disabling the trigger release. We are not talking about IDPA here.

Thanks for the input.

Mike

Correct. I don't think the club can tell you must disengage it. They could certainly suggest it and the shooter would be better off. 

 

3.3 Applicability of Rules:
USPSA matches are governed by the rules applicable to the discipline. Host organizations may not enforce local rules except to comply with legislation or legal precedent in the applicable jurisdiction. Any voluntarily adopted rules that are not in compliance with these rules must not be applied to USPSA matches without the express written consent of the President of USPSA. All local rules allowed under these provisions will be documented at USPSA HQ.

 

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You have a Serpa holster. You want to shoot USPSA. You contact the club where you want to shoot, or just show up and they say, "You can't shoot our match with a Serpa holster, our club/range has a rule against them."

 

Well then you have a few options.

  • get a different holster
  • use a punch and remove the locking mechanism and make it a 'slide' holster, no active retention
  • tell them their local rule doesn't take precedence over uspsa rules and you can use it, per the uspsa rule book. since they are sooooo into following rules

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The ONLY thing I can see that may give the club credence on this issue (i.e., disallowing the Serpa holster) is 5.2.6.  However, I think that may be a little thin ...

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I'm with Mike -- but if a club decided to base a decision to ban that holster on 5.2.6, I don't know how to argue against that.....

 

 

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Here it is:

5.2.6 USPSA Handgun matches will not require the use of a particular type

or brand of holster. However, the Range Master may deem that a com-petitor’s holster is unsafe and order that it be improved to his satisfac-tion, failing which it must be withdrawn from the match. Divisions may restrict a specific type of holster.

So it is up to the Range Master to determine if it is unsafe or not.

Thanks guys.

Mike

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Remember ... I merely pointed you to this rule.  I also stated I think using in this manner may be a little thin ... But it would be the RM's call.

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no I completely understand. Waiting on an official answer from USPSA.

Thanks

Mike

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holy smokes guys.  how many thousands and thousands of serpa's are out there, and a few idiots don't or can't follow basic safety and common sense guidelines and shoot themselves, and everyone wants to ban serpa's.  i've seen a guy put a bullet thru his leg and another guy put one beside his foot (neither using serpa's), so carelessness, apathy, bad practices and the like can strike with any holster.

 

i wouldn't wear one in uspsa but i do occasionally use in idpa as it is the way i occasionally carry my SD guns, and my approach to idpa is it's my carry practice and if that (or an iwb holster, or shooting a glock 31 or 32 vs a puffy 9mm) puts me a few notches down the results, so be it.

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I only wanted the USPSA ruling on this. Which I think has been brought out 5.2.6 USPSA Handgun matches

Did not want a lot of opinions as to what "I" think. I see a lot of these holsters out there with the mechanism disabled.

No worries guys.

Thanks,

Mike 

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Posted (edited)

I don't think there has been a ruling on Serpa holsters. There is nothing on the NROI rulings page.  Best way to get an answer is to email Troy directly at dnroi@uspsa.org. 

Edited by JodiH
Typo

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Posted (edited)

Mike

 

I used a Serpa holster for a while in both SS and PD.  I stopped using it as it made me nervous ... pretty much for the reasons you seem to outline.  That was a personal decision.

 

As a RM, I would be somewhat reluctant to invoke 5.2.6 for this holster ... Unless:

 

- Multiple instances where such accidents have happened - Likely followed by a manufacturer's recall of the product.  (Not likely ...)

 

- A ruling or advisory from USPSA (or perhaps some other high-level organization such as the NRA) recommending against using this holster.  (Again, not likely ...)

 

- Some other authoritative and reasonable reason for me to prohibit a popular and (when properly used) perfectly safe product.

 

We play in a risk sport ... To call it otherwise does it a disservice. *

 

(* Borrowed from Warren Miller on the topic of skiing ...)

Edited by Schutzenmeister

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I brought this very subject up in a BOD meeting years ago and was told it was not a problem. 

 

Of course things can change.

Edited by Gary Stevens

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13 hours ago, Schutzenmeister said:

Mike

 

I used a Serpa holster for a while in both SS and PD.  I stopped using it as it made me nervous ... pretty much for the reasons you seem to outline.  That was a personal decision.

 

As a RM, I would be somewhat reluctant to invoke 5.2.6 for this holster ... Unless:

 

- Multiple instances where such accidents have happened - Likely followed by a manufacturer's recall of the product.  (Not likely ...)

 

- A ruling or advisory from USPSA (or perhaps some other high-level organization such as the NRA) recommending against using this holster.  (Again, not likely ...)

 

- Some other authoritative and reasonable reason for me to prohibit a popular and (when properly used) perfectly safe product.

 

We play in a risk sport ... To call it otherwise does it a disservice. *

 

(* Borrowed from Warren Miller on the topic of skiing ...)

FLETC & several other LE agencies have banned the Serpa. A Google search revealed a lot of talk about who & why. I took the finger button out of the only one I own. 

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1 hour ago, OPENB said:

FLETC & several other LE agencies have banned the Serpa. A Google search revealed a lot of talk about who & why. I took the finger button out of the only one I own. 

 

Good to know, thanks.  Perhaps it MAY be time for USPSA (etc.) to rethink the holster ... But clearly not universal.  See the following:

 

http://www.guns.com/2016/04/20/swiss-army-adopts-serpa-despite-safety-issues/

 

 

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