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PCC in USPSA


Broncman

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Racinready,

 I'm not a RO ...... Thinking back after reading this thread I sent one new shooter home for starting to make ready before I issued the command.

 

Well, there is no USPSA requirement for the RO to be certified at a Level 1 match, however there is a an absolute requirement to cite the rule violation for DQ. If the rule is not cited specifically, the shooter has all rights to arbitrate under Chapter 11. Which rule did you cite him for? You can't just say "I don't like what you did" There are 4 sections under Match Disqualification, Accidental Discharge, Unsafe Gun Handling, Unsportsmanlike Conduct, and Prohibited Substances. 

 

10.3.2 When a match disqualification is issued, the Range Officer must record the reasons for the disqualification, and the time and date of the incident, on the competitor’s score sheet, and the Range Master must be notified as soon as possible.

 

For example, the shooter is DQ'd under Rule 10.5.16     Drawing a handgun while facing uprange.
 

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1 hour ago, 9x45 said:

Racinready,

 I'm not a RO ...... Thinking back after reading this thread I sent one new shooter home for starting to make ready before I issued the command.

 

Well, there is no USPSA requirement for the RO to be certified at a Level 1 match, however there is a an absolute requirement to cite the rule violation for DQ. If the rule is not cited specifically, the shooter has all rights to arbitrate under Chapter 11. Which rule did you cite him for? You can't just say "I don't like what you did" There are 4 sections under Match Disqualification, Accidental Discharge, Unsafe Gun Handling, Unsportsmanlike Conduct, and Prohibited Substances. 

 

10.3.2 When a match disqualification is issued, the Range Officer must record the reasons for the disqualification, and the time and date of the incident, on the competitor’s score sheet, and the Range Master must be notified as soon as possible.

 

For example, the shooter is DQ'd under Rule 10.5.16     Drawing a handgun while facing uprange.
 

 

That's good to know, and something I would probably learn from taking a RO class.

 

I told him to stop, and then grabbed the RO who had just shot, explained to him what happened. He said he'd take it from there, and I imagine he took care of all that. I just took the next shooter in line and tried to keep things moving. I doubt the shooter new that either, apparently it was his first match which I didn't know at the time.

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In all my years of various shooting competition, a lot of events are lacking in new shooter orientation. Stuff you can't learn from the internet.

 

Even though I have shot a few USPSA matches earlier, I did stand in on the new shooter orientation at the ORSA match last weekend.

 

Very good stuff and great club!

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I'm a limited shooter.  But, I've noticed some things about the PCC division.  And honestly, I was looking at this post because I was thinking of shooting PCC.

 

First off, some areas do not have opportunities for rifle style competition.  It's great for those who want to use a long gun in competition in areas that don't have 3 gun.

 

To me open and pistols in general have a lot of advantages in a USPSA style stage.

 

Reloads are quicker for pistols, transitions are quicker, shooting around barricades is easier (especially on the week side with a tight fault line), moving through obstacles are easier with a pistol, running is easier with a pistol too.  Pistols also have the option for Major PF scoring in Open, Limited, Single Stack, and Revolver.

 

PCC is just another option and set of skills for the game.

 

At the club I shoot at we basically treat the chamber flag as the holster.  The PCC is considered safe with the flag in it like pistols are considered safe while holstered.  Most of the PCC guys just leave them on the adjacent safe table with muzzle pointed at the berm and only handle when moving to the firing line or from bay to bay.

 

Safety wise, the things I see a lot of is breaking the 180 when moving facing the shooters weak side of the berm.  It takes a while to realize the PCC is more diaganol across your body.  And the other thing is sweeping your own feet in tight areas.

 

If you want to trip up a PCC shooter set up a stage with short distance head shots and watch the B's rack up.  I've seen that a lot too since the sights are much higher to the bore compared to a pistol.

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As far as running with one, well I mean he IS the first PCC National Champion, but I've never seen anyone run as fast as Max does. Even with a pistol.

 

And I agree on the sweeping issue. More people need to adopt this technique of resting the stock up on top of their shoulder instead of dipping the muzzle down and keeping the whole gun in front:

 

 

Edited by MemphisMechanic
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That's a great performance from Max. The scary thing is from what I saw on the video he's still got a lot of room to grow. When he irons out his small mistakes it's really possible he could rule this division for a few years. Makes PCC look fun.

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On 3/29/2017 at 9:35 PM, MemphisMechanic said:

As far as running with one, well I mean he IS the first PCC National Champion, but I've never seen anyone run as fast as Max does. Even with a pistol.

 

And I agree on the sweeping issue. More people need to adopt this technique of resting the stock up on top of their shoulder instead of dipping the muzzle down and keeping the whole gun in front:

 

 

Even as good as he is, you can tell reloads are a little harder on the PCC guys (There is just no natural flow for the support hand like with the pistol).  I watched Todd Jarrett too.  His PCC reloads were slower than his pistol reloads.  That Max guy has definitely got some athletic ability beyond excellent his shooting skills. It looks like one of his worst stages was the head shot stage.

Edited by mvslay
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It's a stock JRC trigger. It's quite nice for an OEM, certainly not a JP, but everything around here, so far, has not been greater than about 35 yards. If I get somewhere and need to start shooting at 100 yards, I'll probably put a better trigger in. I'm really only shooting the carbine until my broken left wrist is healed up enough to go back to the pistol.

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On Monday, March 20, 2017 at 7:20 PM, Shadyscott999 said:

 

Yeah.  It is soooo easy after many months of PCC there are only 8 GM in the country.  Those  GM score are still hard to come by.  

 

https://www.uspsa.org/top20.php

Well to be fair a lot of the country hasn't been shooting because of the weather. Lots of shooters around here are still debugging Their guns. 

Match this weekend had 92 shooters with 9 PCC. 

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4 hours ago, 9x45 said:

I'm really only shooting the carbine until my broken left wrist is healed up enough to go back to the pistol.

 

A fellow shooter just got his PCC about a week ago for the same reason.  A wrist injury that's slow to heal.

 

After he gets good with his PCC he may never go back to the dark side.

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flat, I'm going back to the pistol  in another month, but I do like that big stick in the carbine though, not having to drag a big bag around all day, just the small Dillon with ammo, and one extra stick.

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Traditional USPSA aside, they have an astronomical advantage in Steel. I shot this weekend and I pushed as hard as I could and couldn't beat the 2 fastest PCC guys while shooting Open, and they weren't THAT fast on target.  My issue stems namely from them starting at the "low" ready position.  They automatically have a .5-1.5sec jump on the entire field not having to draw, something that gets more diluted in normal USPSA than Steel.  Do I care about finishing 3rd instead of 1st for a local match?  No.  What if there's money/prizes on the line for HOA?  Then yes, I think it's silly that you can bring a rifle to a pistol match.  Maybe add an automatic .5 seconds to PCC?  I dunno.

 

Look at road racing...you've got several divisions racing amongst themselves and for overall in a variety of cars.   However, you don't see superbikes on the track, because its a car race, not an any-vehicle race.

 

Practical pistol shooting was just that for 40 years, now all these people wanna say "well it's PRACTICAL Shooting Association, not PISTOL Shooting Association" the second PCC comes along.  But hey, it's 2017 and boys are girls, cats are dogs, and rifles are pistols.  I'm cool with PCC, but I believe it should be completely separate considering how many people have come out of the woodwork to shoot it. I.E.- Have an entire PCC branch of the sport where they have their own divisions within it; to include Major/Minor scoring, irons/optics divisions, mag limits, etc.  That's just my take. 

 

Maybe I can convince the NRA to start a Laser Guided Cruise Missile Division for Highpower, don't worry, you can still win in your division.

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16 minutes ago, motosapiens said:

haha, it's true, there *are* butt-hurt open shooters who care about HOA and other divisions.  lulz.

 

Right here, me. :lol:

 

I'm a competitive person, I wanna win the whole damn thing, or at least have the chance to.  I wouldn't feel limited in a normal USPSA match, bring on the rifles, but the advantages in Steel aren't even close.  In Steel, a mediocre pistol shooter can shoot PCC and run with a world class pistol shooter and claim top spot.  The advantage is astronomical.

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51 minutes ago, RippinSVT said:

Traditional USPSA aside, they have an astronomical advantage in Steel. I shot this weekend and I pushed as hard as I could and couldn't beat the 2 fastest PCC guys while shooting Open, and they weren't THAT fast on target.  My issue stems namely from them starting at the "low" ready position.  They automatically have a .5-1.5sec jump on the entire field not having to draw, something that gets more diluted in normal USPSA than Steel.  Do I care about finishing 3rd instead of 1st for a local match?  No.  What if there's money/prizes on the line for HOA?  Then yes, I think it's silly that you can bring a rifle to a pistol match.  Maybe add an automatic .5 seconds to PCC?  I dunno.

 

Look at road racing...you've got several divisions racing amongst themselves and for overall in a variety of cars.   However, you don't see superbikes on the track, because its a car race, not an any-vehicle race.

 

Practical pistol shooting was just that for 40 years, now all these people wanna say "well it's PRACTICAL Shooting Association, not PISTOL Shooting Association" the second PCC comes along.  But hey, it's 2017 and boys are girls, cats are dogs, and rifles are pistols.  I'm cool with PCC, but I believe it should be completely separate considering how many people have come out of the woodwork to shoot it. I.E.- Have an entire PCC branch of the sport where they have their own divisions within it; to include Major/Minor scoring, irons/optics divisions, mag limits, etc.  That's just my take. 

 

Maybe I can convince the NRA to start a Laser Guided Cruise Missile Division for Highpower, don't worry, you can still win in your division.

I guess I would complain as well if match organizers didn't consider speed difference between divisions when handing out prizes.  Just think about how the iron sight guys feel when there are optic shooters at the match. 

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13 minutes ago, RippinSVT said:

 

Right here, me. :lol:

 

I'm a competitive person, I wanna win the whole damn thing, or at least have the chance to.  I wouldn't feel limited in a normal USPSA match, bring on the rifles, but the advantages in Steel aren't even close.  In Steel, a mediocre pistol shooter can shoot PCC and run with a world class pistol shooter and claim top spot.  The advantage is astronomical.

same thing is true for open vs production or SS. That's why we don't GAF about open guns (or pcc).

 

If you care that much about beating people in other divisions, buy a rifle, but caring about beating other divisions isn't competitive, it's weird.  Like beating up kids in wheelchairs.

Edited by motosapiens
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10 minutes ago, motosapiens said:

same thing is true for open vs production or SS. That's why we don't GAF about open guns (or pcc).

 

If you care that much about beating people in other divisions, buy a rifle, but caring about beating other divisions isn't competitive, it's weird.  Like beating up kids in wheelchairs.

 

Good point, it's totally the same thing.  When I shoot iron-sight divisions (I usually do) I still want to beat the "higher" divisions.  That's being a competitive person.  You probably get super stoked when you finish High C/B class at the local hosefest, right?  I mean, why would you even care what the other classes shoot?  The only thing that apparently matters are the people shooting within your tiny bubble of class/division.

Edited by RippinSVT
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1 minute ago, RippinSVT said:

 

Good point, it's totally the same thing.  When I shoot iron-sight divisions (I usually do) I still want to beat the "higher" divisions.  That's being a competitive person.  You probably get super stoked when you finish High C/B class at the local hosefest, right?  I mean, why would you even care what the other classes shoot?  The only thing that apparently matters are the people shooting within your tiny bubble of class/division.

 

i personally ignore classes, since they only exist to give out self-esteem awards. I also ignore the 'lower' divisions, but pay attention to the equivalent and higher ones. As an SS shooter, I want to beat everyone I can in every division, but when I shoot limited, I don't care at all about beating ss or prod shooters. That would be pretty wacked. That'd be like saying 'woot woot, I beat the high lady junior, I'm super badazz!'.

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2 minutes ago, RippinSVT said:

 

Good point, it's totally the same thing.  When I shoot iron-sight divisions (I usually do) I still want to beat the "higher" divisions.  That's being a competitive person.  You probably get super stoked when you finish High C/B class at the local hosefest, right?  I mean, why would you even care what the other classes shoot?  The only thing that apparently matters are the people shooting within your tiny bubble of class/division.

 So when you shoot Irons and loose to Open guys do you feel the same as when you shoot Open and loose to PCC guys? Or is it different?  What if there was a cash prize and you had to shoot irons for some reason(your open blaster is broke for example), of course you want that HOA but are you really going to complain when an Open guy takes it?

 

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