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Probably a dumb question


aandabooks

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In regards to whether a handguard is a foregrip, a person could remove the handguard and then grab the barrel just like it was a handguard. What now? A barrel is a foregrip?

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9 minutes ago, aandabooks said:

Aside from the whole ATF arguement, we can all agree that an AR that is chambered in 9mm and does not have a stock and a barrel of less than 16" would be classified as a pistol.. Since only pistols are allowed in Open division we have cleared that hurdle..

 

The issue at hand is whether a handguard is also a foregrip.  If we say that the handguard is a foregrip then the rules don't have anything about where the magazine has to be inserted.. If we take that conclusion to an end then if a person runs an AR pistol with no handguard they could gain support from the weak hand by holding in front of the trigger guard.  A pistol shooter is allowed put their finger in front of the trigger guard to gain support.  

 

If a handguard is not a foregrip then I don't see any issue of a 9mm AR pistol being legal in Open division as the rules currently are written.

Your first paragraph is contradictory in my opinion. Aside from the atf argument you cant determine the rest of that paragraph. Saying we all know an ar without a stock and under 16" is a pistol is determined by atf rules not uspsa.

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9 hours ago, JRM83 said:

In regards to whether a handguard is a foregrip, a person could remove the handguard and then grab the barrel just like it was a handguard. What now? A barrel is a foregrip?

No, I'm arguing that a typical AR handguard is designed as a horizontal foregrip.  A barrel is not.  So grabbing the barrel would be akin to, well, grabbing the barrel of your Mauser C96 or Walther P38: a less effective/safe grip, but not illegal.

 

Now, an obvious barrel shroud or padded suppressor would be the type of handguard where this would be a harder argument.

 

I'm just outlining my thought process.  I don't intent to come off as definitive or canonical.

Edited by MAC702
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No, I'm arguing that a typical AR handguard is designed as a horizontal foregrip.  A barrel is not.  So grabbing the barrel would be akin to, well, grabbing the barrel of your Mauser C96 or Walther P38: a less effective/safe grip, but not illegal.
 
Now, an obvious barrel shroud or padded suppressor would be the type of handguard where this would be a harder argument.
 
I'm just outlining my thought process.  I don't intent to come off as definitive or canonical.

I'm with you here. I've seen people do some silly barrel holding grips on Ruger MK series guns. Never once did it make sense to me. That is what I would equate grabbing the bare barrel of an AR pistol to, but holding the handguard to me is clearly another grip. Holding the magwell seems fine however.
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I can't see a problem using an ar pistol without a front hand guard and grip is using the pistol grip and weak hand on the magwell. 

 

The issue sue is the holster will be ridiculous and shooting a rifle without a stock might be fun but dudes with 'normal' pistols will be smoking you. Especially on stage and shoot stuff/classifiers. 

 

Imagine trying to run a quick el prez with your 4lb hand rifle...

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  • 7 months later...

Ok, reading this thread was making my head spin so bad i had to create an account to respond to it. First off The ATF does not consider a hand guard a fore grip. infact on an ar platfor firearm its pretty much a requirement. it keeps you from getting burned on a hot barrel, and it protects the gas tube from damage. Yes you can use hold it by the hand guard as well. As far as fore grips on a pistol, vertical grips are not allowed unless you A) pay $200.00 for federal background check and get an NFA stamp for the grip , or B ) pay the $200.00 and register your pistol as an SBR (short barreled rifle) then you can also place a stock on it as well if you wish. You may however use a 45 degree angled fore grip and it is perfectly legal. I also recall someone mentioning not being able to shoulder a pistol. That is false as well. ATF ruled you can shoulder a pistol. They also changed their ruling on shouldering a stabilizing arm brace as well. Since it was determined that a pistol can be shouldered and a pistol with an arm brace is still a pistol, they said "it is ok to "occasionally" shoulder your arm brace if needed to safely or accurately fire your pistol in a specific situation." This of course is a paraphrase ... i don't remember word for word how it was said. The ATF letters i have obtained this info from can easily be found with a quick google search. andif you are looking for a good stabilizing arm brace go with the SB Tactical SBPDW brace. its kind of pricey but its worth it .... it is 3 position adjustable length, makes for excellent shouldering capabilities, and is very short in closed position.

 

http://blog.roninsgrips.com/atf-letter-stating-magpul-afg-legal-use-ar-pistols/

 

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2015/01/foghorn/breaking-atf-releases-open-letter-claiming-misusing-pistol-brace-makes-sbr/

Edited by deucide
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On 3/20/2017 at 3:09 AM, BeerBaron said:

I can't see a problem using an ar pistol without a front hand guard and grip is using the pistol grip and weak hand on the magwell. 

 

The issue sue is the holster will be ridiculous and shooting a rifle without a stock might be fun but dudes with 'normal' pistols will be smoking you. Especially on stage and shoot stuff/classifiers. 

 

Imagine trying to run a quick el prez with your 4lb hand rifle...

 

most people shooting an ar platfor pistol shoot it like a rifle, not a pistol ..... you take a cheek weld on the buffer tube just as you would a stock, and atf does now allow for occasionally shouldering an arm brace if the situation calls for it. also, i believe the company is called UTG , they make a drop leg holster specifically for ar platform pistols /sub machine gun pistols.

 

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