mont1120 Posted March 18, 2017 Share Posted March 18, 2017 Had a new M4 .223 built for 3 gun, and it ran great for two matches, and now I am having serious case issues. It has a Proof research barrel and a Dixie Works receiver. It was set for .223 Wylde. I reload my own ammo, and case gauge every round. The rifle just started to refuse top go into battery about every 3rd round. I had to slam the butt to get the stuck round out. The case does not matter, I had PMC brass, Lake City, and Winchester. When it happens, hitting the forward assist does not help. I took pictures of rounds that were painted in Perm marker, and found a series of three concentric scratches in differing spots on the brass. (See pic). What in the world causes this. None of the rounds fails a Williams chamber gauge, and my DPMS eats them like candy. The rifle is super accurate and I have run out of ideas. Brand new ammo does the same thing. As you can see in the picture, this set of marks can be found near the top of the round, or closer to the rim. Any ideas? The snow has melted and it is time to get some rifle time in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dauntedfuture Posted March 18, 2017 Share Posted March 18, 2017 How does it work with factory ammunition? If it runs with factory ammo then it's your reloads that are the issue. What spec case guage are you using .223 or 5.56? Are you gauging the sized brass or loaded ammo, you should be checking loaded ammo. I'd just send it back for that kind of money if it did not run with factory ammo. If you have to use the forward assist, you should not shoot that round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flatland Shooter Posted March 18, 2017 Share Posted March 18, 2017 I may have had the same problem but not quite as bad. I installed a new barrel January, Super accurate but would jam on seven or eight rounds out of 100. These were my reloads (I don't shoot much factory .223/5.56). Once jammed I had to mortar them out. I reset my trimmer and cut an extra .015" from the case length. New length was 1.735". Loaded bullet length is still 2.250". With the short case I've had no more stuck cases. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigedp51 Posted March 18, 2017 Share Posted March 18, 2017 (edited) I would buy a JP Enterprise case gauge, it is made with a finish chamber reamer and checks body diameter. I use a Hornady cartridge case headspace gauge to measure the fired case length and resized length. But I use the JP Enterprise gauge as a final check of the loaded rounds plop test. Below a Wilson, Dillon and JP Enterprise gauges with cases inserted backwards, and as you can see the JP Enterprise is the only gauge that checks body diameter. Edited March 18, 2017 by bigedp51 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biglou13 Posted March 18, 2017 Share Posted March 18, 2017 What length of sized brass? are you running flat edge over case gauge with loaded ammo? what case gauge are you using? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nugget Posted March 18, 2017 Share Posted March 18, 2017 It does sound like your not bumping the Shoulder far enough back. If you have to mortar the round out you probably have sizing issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mont1120 Posted March 19, 2017 Author Share Posted March 19, 2017 Thanks for the replies men, here's what I have. The same issue is present with factory loads, but not as bad. Maybe 1 out of 8. Brass length is 1.76, OAL is 2.19, but that's because the ogive is set to crimp the round on the 55 grain Hornady's. I use a Williams case gauge and I reject any rounds that will not go flush into the gauge completely. The shoulder measures .357. I use standard Lee .223 dies. I also used completely resized brass, not just neck sized since none of these rounds have been fired through this rifle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biglou13 Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 if your brass and loaded cartridges meet specifications what is curious is that it used to run great for "2 matches" but now having error..... sounds like mechanical failure/error maybe the problem is the rifle/mag? head space? blem in chamber? bad extractor? other bolt/bcg error? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mont1120 Posted March 19, 2017 Author Share Posted March 19, 2017 Well, I think I will send it back for repair, my rounds still run flawless in my old DPMS which has well over 5K rounds through it. Its way beyond my abilities to fix if the group here does not know of any quick fixes. Now I have not used a new mag, is that something that could cause it? Again, the same rounds in the same mags run great in another gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biglou13 Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 (edited) same rounds different gun....... it took me a while to figure it out but had some (bought) reloads that were jamming in a friends new gun but ran in mine.. long story short... finally measured some of rounds not yet chambered in his rifle... turns out reloads were off by avg .0018 when dropped in case gauge... unless you have really good eyes or ran a straight edge over loaded case gauge, i missed these b sight alone .... i found out by using stand comparator on a loaded case gauge turned out ammo not passing case gauge.... it appears that the first slam rifle either resized ammo or chamber in my gun is looser.... before you send it back take a real close look at reloaded cartridges before you chamber in rifle with stand comparator if you can get hands on one. check sized trim legnth and if loaded cartridge is proud in case gauge. You may need to dual down sizing die..... if i didnt get any data from stand comparator. i was going to buy jp gauge like big ed suggested Edited March 19, 2017 by biglou13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nugget Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 Your chamber may be on the tighter end of spec. Possibly chambered when the reamer was new. What do you use to set headspace on your brass? Try chambering a piece of brass that is 2 or 3 thousandth too long with the extractor and ejector removed from the bolt. If it doesn't fit bump it back a thousandth at a time until it chambers and extracts easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flatland Shooter Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 32 minutes ago, Nugget said: Your chamber may be on the tighter end of spec. Possibly chambered when the reamer was new. I always figured a new reamer would make the chamber looser and it would tighten up as the reamer wore down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nugget Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 You are correct. I said it totally backward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpeltier Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 (edited) Have you checked headspace of the bolt to bbl extension? Only two things I know of can cause this if factory ammo gives the same symptoms. Case shoulder (usually just reloads), tight chamber or tight headspace of bolt. Not a magazine issue. Edited March 30, 2017 by mpeltier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigereye Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 I was having a similar problem on my only rifle with .223 Wylde chamber. All of my reloads looked good in a Dillon case gauge. In practice and general shooting, it seldom happened because I wasn't ejecting a live round. But, it was happening on every stage of a recent match. I checked with factory rounds, and they ran fine. After some reading here, I reset my sizing die by turning it down about a full turn. I now have no more problems with my reloads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigedp51 Posted April 4, 2017 Share Posted April 4, 2017 (edited) I use a Hornady cartridge case headspace gauge and measure a fired case and then bump the case shoulder back .003 to .004. Below a fired case from my AR15 rifle before sizing, after sizing the shoulder is pushed back .003 to .004 Below is my JP Enterprise .223/5.56 case gauge, it is made with a Wylde finish chamber reamer and is the only case gauge I know of that checks case body diameter. And after the cases are loaded I use this gauge for a final "plop" test. Meaning the loaded cartridge is dropped into the gauge all the way then tilted and the loaded round must drop out of the gauge. Bottom line I'm loading for three AR15 rifles and a bolt action Savage .223 and with the Hornady gauge and the JP Enterprise gauge I have never had a failure to feed or eject. Meaning with the correct gauges to check headspace length and body diameter you should not have any problems. And again the standard Wilson type case gauges do "NOT" check body diameter. And your resized case diameter should be .003 to .005 smaller than your fired case diameter for reliable extraction. Meaning if it fits the JP Enterprise gauge the case diameter is small enough to chamber correctly. Edited April 4, 2017 by bigedp51 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mont1120 Posted May 6, 2017 Author Share Posted May 6, 2017 Sooooo, wanted to let all of you guys know the results. A very tight chamber is the reason they were sticking, the shoulder on my reloads was just a hair out of spec, and the should would not chamber all the way, getting stuck, After firing a couple of hundred PMC factory rounds without a single failure, I went back and checked the difference. I looked at know rounds that would fail, and re-checked them in a case gauge. Sure enough, the rim as not 100% flush in the groove of the gauge. These rounds will fire in my DPMS all day long without a hitch, but the Proof research barrel is cut that tight that it would not accept the bulged shoulder. Thanks for all the responses, and as usual, you guys are right. Live and learn................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now