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Accu Shadow ESP


TheGodfather

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I plan on shooting one for the Silver Dollar match in Wichita Falls next month and one of the Arkansas matches.   According to our AC in a post on either the CT forum or the Facebook think tank it is IDPA legal now.    

Edited by kells81
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Funny, I just got my email back from my AC about this. The more I read the rules the more I start to thinks it's legal. So I asked.

 

While he didn't say it the "Accu Shadow" was legal, he did say if a gun meets the requirements it would be legal. I see nothing in the rules prohibiting it.  

 

I'm thinking it's GTG.

 

Guess who's picking up one today from his ffl?!  This guy!

 

Might shoot it in my first sanctioned match next month. 

Edited by B_RAD
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I have not gotten a response from IDPA HQ but I have from some AC's.  I would have to say if you plan on shooting one in TX, OK, LA, AR then rock on with it.  I specifically asked Mike P in a side email who then sent it to his AC then back to me with the answer.   I was going up there for the match either way but it was nice to get an answer on something like that prior to dragging it up with me because it is a 6-7 hour drive to that match.   

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Well CZC removes material from  the slide to install the bushing. Which seems to violate this rule in ESP

 

8.2.2.3 ESP Excluded Features and Modifications (Non -Inclusive list): A. Removal of material from the exterior of the slide other than front cocking serrations, tri-top, engraving, carry melts, and high power cuts.

 

Which goes back to IDPA not thinking CZC is a manufacturer, so this is an aftermarket modification to a CZ gun. And from my reading of the above, illegal for ESP. While the Accu Shadow is a CZC model, it is not a CZ-UB gun, no gun leaves the CZ factory an Accu Shadow.

 

And trust me, even thought for the longest time the Accu was even listed in the CZ USA catalog with a sku there, IDPA doesn't and probably won't see it as legal.

 

But now it seems we have more tribalism and uncertainty. Yeah.

Edited by rowdyb
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I think most are reading too much into it Rowdy.    There is very little material removed from the outside of the slide and that is to accommodate the recoil spring cap.   The bushing cuts are inside the slide with maybe a kiss if any to the face to square it up.   The Facebook discussion went all over the place about it.   

 

Brian Ehrler said its no different than any other custom gun on my post on FB IDPA Moderated. 

 

 

Dave H sent this VIA email when I asked about shooting one at the Razorback shootout in Arkansas next month.   He is the AR, OK, LA  Area Coordinator

Quote
Good morning,
 
After much discussion among several AC's around the region, it has be determined that the AccuShadow is legal in ESP division.
 
Have a great one,
Dave

 

 

No official answer from HQ but someone posted they had an over the phone answer.   

 

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I saw Dave H at the range yesterday. We didn't talk about this, but he wanted my opinions on the Florida stuff.

 

I'll just keep shooting my regular SP01 Shadow in SSP.

 

For me and my sponsors, if you can now shoot an Accu Shadow in ESP that'd be good news. I'm cautiously optimistic.

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I asked IDPA.  It's legal. 

 

If you want to shoot one in a match, I'd be proactive and simply send an email to your MD and/or AC beforehand. If their position is it's not allowed, I'd ask them to contact IDPA and verify. That should solve any issues.  

 

It's my understanding that emails will not be viewed as an official ruling so they will not be given. I was talking to them in person and I asked.  

Edited by B_RAD
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On 3/20/2017 at 9:29 PM, kells81 said:

I think most are reading too much into it Rowdy.    There is very little material removed from the outside of the slide and that is to accommodate the recoil spring cap.   The bushing cuts are inside the slide with maybe a kiss if any to the face to square it up.   The Facebook discussion went all over the place about it.   

 

Brian Ehrler said its no different than any other custom gun on my post on FB IDPA Moderated. 

 

 

Dave H sent this VIA email when I asked about shooting one at the Razorback shootout in Arkansas next month.   He is the AR, OK, LA  Area Coordinator

 

 

No official answer from HQ but someone posted they had an over the phone answer.   

 

The rules don't specify an acceptable amount, only that removal outside of certain explicit changes isn't allowed.

 

If this was a custom gun maker, then the rules would allow the gun in SSP too, as it would have come from the factory this way, and if it met the production amounts. A similar Tanfoglio would be legal if it came stock with the bushing.

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ssp, guns on this list, with these mods only, this size and this weight.

 

esp, guns this size, this weight.

 

that's how simple i wish it was. a ssp legal list would sure make that easier. and have esp really be as simple as just size for the box and weight for the scale. the end.

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Been saying that for years. 

SSP more stock, IPSC Production rules. Yes, IPSC not USPSA, 5 lb trigger and all.

CDP & ESP fit The Box, no comp/ports or optic, generous weight limit. Full stop. 

 

REV with power factor dependent on reload seems OK. 

 

CCP and BUG are so screwed up I don't know what to do with them. 

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On March 22, 2017 at 2:32 PM, daytona955i said:

The rules don't specify an acceptable amount, only that removal outside of certain explicit changes isn't allowed.

 

If this was a custom gun maker, then the rules would allow the gun in SSP too, as it would have come from the factory this way, and if it met the production amounts. A similar Tanfoglio would be legal if it came stock with the bushing.

If you want to go the custom gun maker route then it is legal since I am pretty sure CZC is now producing firearms...   ?

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8 hours ago, kells81 said:

If you want to go the custom gun maker route then it is legal since I am pretty sure CZC is now producing firearms...   ?

But they don't build the Accu-Shadow from the ground up, or off a bare frame.

 

If they did, I'd say there was no question that it was legal.

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18 hours ago, daytona955i said:

But they don't build the Accu-Shadow from the ground up, or off a bare frame.

 

If they did, I'd say there was no question that it was legal.

 

You could make the same argument for custom 1911's coming from custom "gunmakers" who are just putting them together.  

 

Pretty much the AC's at the matches I plan on going to have OK'ed what I'm slinging so no issues.  If your AC/MD want to not allow them then power to them.  

 

If if you want to shoot one at a sanctioned match just send the email and get approved prior as I did.  

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I thought about this on my way home.   Would a 1911 be ESP legal since material is removed from the exterior of the slide for the ejection port lowering/flair?   You could make a bigger case for that then you could for the front of a Shadow.   

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13 hours ago, kells81 said:

I thought about this on my way home.   Would a 1911 be ESP legal since material is removed from the exterior of the slide for the ejection port lowering/flair?   You could make a bigger case for that then you could for the front of a Shadow.   

If it's done by the manufacturer, according to how other guns have been treated (34 slide cut), then it would be.

 

I think ESP should be an anything goes place for slide machining, but that's not how it currently reads.

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 Not sure why folks are still debating this. 

 

If you want to shoot it, contact your MD/AC. If they're still thinking it's not allowed, ask them to contact HQ and verify.  

 

This should solve any issues. 

 

 

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45 minutes ago, B_RAD said:

Which is allowed/specifically called out in the rules. 

 

Which rule do are you talking about? I'm guessing 8.2.2.2-V  "slide inserts to accommodate different recoil assembly design"

 

But, you're ignoring 8.2.2.3 which doesn't say you can remove material from the slide to accommodate a new recoil assembly. So removing materiel from the slide for a new reverse plug would be illegal per the rules. You have to look at these two rules together, yes you can change the recoil assembly, but you still can't mill the slide for it.

 

That said, from the way people are talking it sounds like it's going to be allowed. It's not the first time IDPA has allowed a gun that doesn't fit in the rules and I'm sure it wont be the last.

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