Jump to content
Brian Enos's Forums... Maku mozo!

Subconscious mind or stage planning?


Dhudgins525

Recommended Posts

Good morning everyone, so I've been shooting almost a year now in IDPA and USPSA matches and I have a few technical questions. We all know that reloads are planned for and in USPSA it's a lot easier to execute those planned reloads because you can drop a mag with rounds in it and the object of the game is to keep the gun running and never let it run dry if at all possible. Well in idpa you have to perform a lot of slide lock reloads due to the rules which brings me to the question. The top shooters that are winning local matches around here don't have any hesitation when it's time to reload but they say they don't count rounds and due to the occasional make up shot they don't plan for reloads at certain places. So does their mind realize that the gun is at slide lock or are they telling a little white lie about not planning and actually have reloads scheduled? I'm just trying to figure out how there isn't any hesitation. For anyone who's curious I'm to the point of finishing in the top 5 to 10 at most matches so I'm beginning the long process of tweaking everything and trying to gain a few seconds per stage.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I typically try to have a plan, sometimes it goes to shit due to make up shots. If you practice enough will know the gun is empty right away. And if I see a good point to reload I may plan ahead of time to take extra shots at certain targets, or if I don't need them dump one or two extra on the last target so the reload timing works out better.

 

Someone who practices regularly will not do the, stand there looking at a target with the gun at slide lock wondering why the trigger wont pull move, I  see a lot in IDPA.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah that's me at times.(Looking at the gun funny lol) Breaking down the stages and comparing against the faster guys that are winning I've come to realize that most of the time difference seems to be in transitions and reload time. Of course accuracy is key now since the new one second person per point scoring. I've also thought about if the accuracy is good enough then there isn't a need for makeup shots thus allowing the reloads to be entered into the stage plan better. As usual accuracy seems to be paramount. I've really focused in lately on draw, transitions, and reloads for idpa since you can't really make up much time but can lose a bunch through those three things. Any observations from someone would also be helpful of what to throw into the mix.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

When you shoot enough, you will naturally develop an internal round counter of sorts.  Not exact by any means but you will know empty is coming.  Helps prevent you from having the slide lock/brain lock/empty gun freeze up.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks guys. I need to practice, practice, practice, and practice some more it sounds like. I appreciate the responses. The mental side of shooting is probably the hardest because you only pick up things like yall are talking about with time and experience. Now if I can just get reloads down on the timer and transitions I think I'll move up a few more spots. I'm finally learning that if you can see fast enough to hit the target then that shot should be an accurate shot. Basically that I can shoot accurately as fast as I can just throw bullets at a target as long as my fundamentals are good. Still work those regular in dry fire. Now if I can get the occasional blink to not happen also.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I spent the first four years in IDPA. SSP/ESP Master who has a shiny "1st Master" plaque or two from state matches:

 

This predated 1.0 sec per PD, so there are a lot more makeup shots now. I haven't shot the game under new rules, so factor that into the below:

 

I always determine exactly will shot will lock the gun open. "Okay, the second round on the third target in the window is where I go empty" and I would plan as best as possible for likely places I'd need a makeup shot before it. If there's a 10 yard headshot just before the window, there's a decent chance I might take a third shot at that, so that means I'm probably going empty sooner.

 

Rather than counting rounds, I'm simply thinking as I move to that window about which shot was two rounds before the one I planned for, if I've fired two makeup shots at that point. That also allows for additional mental prep during your stage planning:

 

"My reload is supposed to be the second shot on target X. If I take two makeups it'll be in the middle of shooting Y, and three means it'll go empty as I transition into target Y."

 

Additionally, "game" your makeup shots to position your reload where you want it. It's always much more consistent to shoot a target twice and load while transitioning to the next one than it is to shoot-reload-shoot on the same target. Not only is it fractionally faster, you also won't make mistakes like pulling or rushing shots at the start or end of the reload.

 

My goal on any reload is to have my weak hand racing downward and the mag release depressed before the gun comes down from the recoil of the last shot. If you're at all uncertain of your round count, take the 1/10th of a second to SEE the slide locked back before committing to dropping a potential procedural-earning magazine to the floor... but try to know that the gun is going to be empty before you press that trigger.

 

And never never never never pick up a magazine you dropped 1 or 2 shots too early. It's a fixed three second penalty you eat and run. You can't load and grab that magazine in less than 3-4 seconds in match conditions, and oftentimes you make additional errors in bending down with the other magazine in your hand, flustered, trying to decide what you need to do. Decide right now that you'll always leave a dropped magazine on the ground and never break that rule. Load and run.

 

Orrrrr just switch to USPSA and load whenever you feel like it. That's a lot more fun than SSP to me! :D 

Edited by MemphisMechanic
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@MemphisMechanic I shoot USPSA once a month too and love that they don't have any kind of goofy rule like that. IDPA is just a lot more prevalent in my area as there is a match somewhere within an hour and usually within 30 minutes of my house every Saturday so that's why I still play that game but USPSA has quickly becoming my fave. I just enjoy getting to shoot every opportunity I can get. I REALLY APPRECIATE your advice on the procedural time vs pick up time and on the sequence of how the reload should go though because it makes a lot of sense and I've never quite thought about it like that. I'm finally starting to finish better in both sports and I'm really pushing hard now to try and speed up and be able to shoot with the Masters and Experts in both sports. We have a few sanctioned matches for IDPA coming up and I'm hoping to get a bump in one of those matches. Reloading just really seems to be my downfall right now because I can't get the timing and hand speed like I need it. Still between 1.5 and 2 seconds on reloads in match setting so my dry fire has pretty much been all about reloads and transitions and I read the old thread from Brian Enos on transitions and worked in for a few weeks and got the second part yesterday to start working on. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I never understood why people would even think to count rounds: Just know beforehand which shot on which target is going to lock the slide back. Simple is consistent, and consistent wins matches.

 

IMO, try working your way down to consistent 1 second USPSA speed loads, then a reliable 1.3-1.5 second reload will be comfortable in field courses, which is honestly all you need for a very long time.

 

Most of the reload takes place with your weak hand. Film yourself and play it back. Compare the speed your offhand dips down to the belt and returns with a mag to that of the top guys on YouTube.

 

Don't just nod your head and skip that step: everyone has a cameraphone these days. Actually film your load and see what your "warp speed hands" look like compared to a top guy. Watch the speed of the hands - the gun and the mags are distractions.

 

I think you'll lean that your weak hand is moving a lot slower than you think it is. And is capable of going much faster than you think. You just have to practice "120% speed" reloads until that's your new normal.

Edited by MemphisMechanic
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Regarding PE's, they're typically a 5-6 second penalty. Guys realize they just earned one... and stop. Wait. Confused. Start to do something. Stop. Then finally do something else. While apologing to the RO or cussing at themselves, and finally return to plan.

 

Just grab another mag and go. Under the old rules I have twice won a stage with a procedural because I did something honestly unintentional that turned out to be an advantage... and I didn't hesitate.

 

We won't mention they first few years of indecision and dropped-mag pickups before I figured that stuff out. ;) 

 

Edited by MemphisMechanic
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Believe it or not I actually just got a new phone last weekend that can record normal and in slow motion and I did both last night and watched it. If I get a chance tonight I'll video some of my reloads again both ways and post for you to see and critique if you wouldn't mind. As for the PE thing I have gotten a few and rarely realized I'd even gotten one until after the stage. I try my best not to allow anything to distract me from my stage plan which involves turning electronic earmuffs down and all. I am the worst to go through a stage counting rounds on the walk through and then having to make up a shot early because I'm telling myself if I miss it screws my reloads up which generally in turn draws my attention away from the focus I need to make accurate shots and then I miss. I'm slowly learning and comprehending that a clear conscious mind seems to be best instead of trying to think to much. Does that seem to be your experience also?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Right now you have to think to drive the gun through the stage, just like a 16 year old driving a car.

 

A year from now, that part will be automatic, and you'll no longer feel a racing heart rate and a rush of adrenaline on the line waiting for the beep. (Much sooner, if you practice often and dryfire)

 

Eventually you learn to have a calm mind during stages.

 

Always take the makeup shots and change where you reload as needed. Do an extra one to get back on your plan in USPSA if you need to, but you need the points. You just need them fast

 

 

Edited by MemphisMechanic
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is something excellent information you're giving and I appreciate it. I just setup a mock stage at home to run through in dry fire practice in just a minute. I will be practicing more since the weather is nicer and the days are getting longer. Again thank everyone and especially Memphis mechanic for all the great advice.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It also sounds like you need to do more walk through repetitions in USPSA. You should do the exact same unchanged "airgunning" after your plan is set. Over and over, until every move and every reload and movement is memorized.

 

And don't just do what the advanced guys do. Take the simplest possible plan every time right now. As you get better you'll be able to pull off more complicated strategies, shoot hard targets on the move, etc.

 

If you can't execute your plan perfectly at least times out of 10, it's the wrong plan or you haven't rehearsed it enough.

 

A poor plan executed perfectly always beats a perfect plan executed poorly.

 

Consistency wins matches far, far more often than pure speed alone does.

Edited by MemphisMechanic
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree and will definitely follow your advice! What did you do when you shot idpa considering you only get one walk through and no air gunning? I need a strategy for memorizing a stage in my mind after the initial walk through. Any more great tips and advice for that? I really enjoy listening to someone with so much knowledge 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I setup a dry fire drill this afternoon that required movement left, then right, and then forward and then reversed it and ran it. I incorporated a mag change in it going both ways and then setup a 6 shot, reload, 6 shot more standards type of drill and ran it around 30 times. I did start to realize that my eyes are waiting on my weak hand to get the mag back to the magwell so it's definitely moving slow compared to what it needs to. I'm excited for how this is all seeming to come together!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

39 minutes ago, Dhudgins525 said:

I agree and will definitely follow your advice! What did you do when you shot idpa considering you only get one walk through and no air gunning? I need a strategy for memorizing a stage in my mind after the initial walk through. Any more great tips and advice for that? I really enjoy listening to someone with so much knowledge 

 

Visualization. 

 

There is a ton of information on that topic here if you search.

 

Before the run ... you should be able to close your eyes and play the whole thing in your mind like a movie, in detail. That applies to both sports. 

 

In IDPA you need it because you only get to walk through once without an air gun.

 

In USPSA you need it because stages are longer and more complex, and you have many ways to shoot some of them.

 

It helps everywhere.

Edited by MemphisMechanic
Link to comment
Share on other sites

What everyone else said about not counting but pre-planning where you reload is right on point and doesn't need to be repeated.

 

Action beats reaction, so knowing the last round was fired when you pull the trigger is always faster.

 

However, in reviewing my shooting on video later, the times when I have been surprised (sometimes your plan goes to shit and you compensate by shooting more, not better), my slide lock, actual emergency, not planned empty, reload is only a hair slower, .20 seconds maybe over time.

 

The difference is I'm watching the front sight and not the target. It's a much different sight picture when the slide locks back.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well guys I'm extremely happy to be able to say I won my first club match at Brock's Gap training center in Birmingham yesterday and I definitely want to give credit to everyone in this thread who gave me tips. @MemphisMechanic I appreciate everything you told me and used the info to the fullest and @daytona955i I saw what you were talking about yesterday on a stage where I had a makeup shot and I don't know what the actual reload time was but there wasn't hesitation to start the reload because you're right it looked off as soon as the gun didn't return to battery after the shot broke.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...