CZ85Combat Posted May 11, 2017 Share Posted May 11, 2017 56 minutes ago, WiII said: I'm starting to get a little but hurt over this. The entire release of the Shadow 2 has been an FU to the US consumers. We had to wait a year longer and now the numbers are still insufficient to allow entry to production(which is the soul purpose of this gun). Don't get but hurt, you can buy one if you want one, they are in stock all over. Just not enough buyers to push the numbers up. CZ is not going to ship guns in that are going to sit on shelves and take a long time to sell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowdyb Posted May 11, 2017 Share Posted May 11, 2017 Most of us who are whining have one or two of them. We put deposits down, waited and now have the new hotness we wanted. We love the gun itself. It's just the majority of us had intended a certain usage of it, USPSA Production, and we can't do that. I love my Accu Shadow. I am learning to love my Shadow 2, but the process would be quicker if I was training with it and shooting matches with it. Not just shooting it off and on for familiarization. I just shot L10 last weekend, with my Tac Sport and scoring major. I've got the hot new CZ Prod gun and I want to shoot it in Prod, simple as that. It is an annoying kind of oversight to not have brought 2,001 units into the US the first shipment with paperwork ready to be submitted to uspsa that day. Remember the talk on the CZ UB facebook page about how many they were building and how great the sales were and how they had to add extra manpower and materials to meet the demand? So we had some hope it would be as quickly ready for us as it was for those in ipsc shooting. Nope. I'll just keep waiting and checking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrT_shootsAcz Posted May 11, 2017 Share Posted May 11, 2017 44 minutes ago, rowdyb said: Most of us who are whining have one or two of them. We put deposits down, waited and now have the new hotness we wanted. We love the gun itself. It's just the majority of us had intended a certain usage of it, USPSA Production, and we can't do that. I love my Accu Shadow. I am learning to love my Shadow 2, but the process would be quicker if I was training with it and shooting matches with it. Not just shooting it off and on for familiarization. I just shot L10 last weekend, with my Tac Sport and scoring major. I've got the hot new CZ Prod gun and I want to shoot it in Prod, simple as that. It is an annoying kind of oversight to not have brought 2,001 units into the US the first shipment with paperwork ready to be submitted to uspsa that day. Remember the talk on the CZ UB facebook page about how many they were building and how great the sales were and how they had to add extra manpower and materials to meet the demand? So we had some hope it would be as quickly ready for us as it was for those in ipsc shooting. Nope. I'll just keep waiting and checking. +1... great post Rowdyb I was just talking to a fellow CZ shooter about how we read a while back that they added extra materials and manpower to ramp up output. Yeah... annoying oversight is a nice way to put it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_striker Posted May 11, 2017 Share Posted May 11, 2017 So, I haven't read this entire thread. What's the current ruling on whether it's 2000 units world wide or just in the US? I'd imagine CZ has sold 2000 units world wide by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrT_shootsAcz Posted May 11, 2017 Share Posted May 11, 2017 11 minutes ago, d_striker said: So, I haven't read this entire thread. What's the current ruling on whether it's 2000 units world wide or just in the US? I'd imagine CZ has sold 2000 units world wide by now. It's my understanding that it is referring to 2000 in the US. CZ USA also needs to submit the form to USPSA in order for the S2 to be added to the approved gun list and it sounds like that hasn't been done yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_striker Posted May 11, 2017 Share Posted May 11, 2017 29 minutes ago, MrT_shootsAcz said: It's my understanding that it is referring to 2000 in the US. CZ USA also needs to submit the form to USPSA in order for the S2 to be added to the approved gun list and it sounds like that hasn't been done yet. What changed since the FN ruling Troy made in 2013? Who makes these decisions? Is it just whatever Troy feels depending on the year or does the USPSA BOD vote on these things? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IHAVEGAS Posted May 11, 2017 Share Posted May 11, 2017 9 hours ago, d_striker said: What changed since the FN ruling Troy made in 2013? Who makes these decisions? Is it just whatever Troy feels depending on the year or does the USPSA BOD vote on these things? The first question peaks my interest, I'm going on faith about the FN ruling because I don't have first hand knowledge of how things happened. Anyway, current USPSA rulebook is dated February 2014, so you would figure that a lot of things were discussed in 2013 and before. You can probably figure that if the FN was allowed to compete in the US and not generally available then there would have been several complaints. Would be interesting to have an outdated rulebook and see if there are any pertinent differences. My understanding is that there is a rules committee involved in writing the rules & that Troy is responsible for intrepretations of the rules as written. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WiII Posted May 11, 2017 Share Posted May 11, 2017 12 hours ago, CZ85Combat said: Don't get but hurt, you can buy one if you want one, they are in stock all over. Just not enough buyers to push the numbers up. CZ is not going to ship guns in that are going to sit on shelves and take a long time to sell. I'm not buying another just to bump sales closer to 2000! lol I just want to be able to use my production gun in production. It's not a good look when Hopkins, a CZ employee, is forced to shoot the new production wondergun in L10 at level 3 matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowdyb Posted May 11, 2017 Share Posted May 11, 2017 https://www.uspsa.org/bodminutes/20081122_Production_Gun_Approval_Form.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_striker Posted May 11, 2017 Share Posted May 11, 2017 3 minutes ago, rowdyb said: https://www.uspsa.org/bodminutes/20081122_Production_Gun_Approval_Form.pdf Interesting. I don't see any mention of "units available in the US" anywhere on that form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrT_shootsAcz Posted May 11, 2017 Share Posted May 11, 2017 35 minutes ago, d_striker said: Interesting. I don't see any mention of "units available in the US" anywhere on that form. I agree completely... but it doesn't change the fact that a form needs to be submitted. Perhaps CZ USA isn't aware they could have submitted based on numbers OCONUS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_striker Posted May 11, 2017 Share Posted May 11, 2017 19 minutes ago, MrT_shootsAcz said: I agree completely... but it doesn't change the fact that a form needs to be submitted. Perhaps CZ USA isn't aware they could have submitted based on numbers OCONUS. Yup. Someone needs to send this form to CZ and tell them to quit slacking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IHAVEGAS Posted May 11, 2017 Share Posted May 11, 2017 53 minutes ago, d_striker said: Interesting. I don't see any mention of "units available in the US" anywhere on that form. Frontsite magazine, Jan/Feb 2017, page 7 . If you are a USPSA member you should be able to go to their website & look it up for free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InHocSignoVincis Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 Just got this back CZUSA this morning. Tony, Thank you for your inquiry with us. Shadow 2 approval is pending and we're waiting on meeting the 2,000 piece requirement in order to keep the process rolling. Shadow 2's are continuing to come in but there's no ETA for when we will reach that number. Stay tuned! Thanks, Dereck Miller Sales Assistant 800-955-4486 x 334 fax: 913-321-2251 CZ-USA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InHocSignoVincis Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 Yeah i know first post.....lol........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_striker Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 8 hours ago, InHocSignoVincis said: Just got this back CZUSA this morning. Tony, Thank you for your inquiry with us. Shadow 2 approval is pending and we're waiting on meeting the 2,000 piece requirement in order to keep the process rolling. Shadow 2's are continuing to come in but there's no ETA for when we will reach that number. Stay tuned! Thanks, Dereck Miller Sales Assistant 800-955-4486 x 334 fax: 913-321-2251 CZ-USA You should email him back and tell him it's 2000 units worldwide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IHAVEGAS Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 27 minutes ago, d_striker said: You should email him back and tell him it's 2000 units worldwide. Far as I can tell, nobody was forced to buy a gun that was not on the production gun list or given a firm date when this gun would be. Just sayin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_striker Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 (edited) 16 minutes ago, IHAVEGAS said: Far as I can tell, nobody was forced to buy a gun that was not on the production gun list or given a firm date when this gun would be. Just sayin. What's your point? I still haven't seen anything contrary to Troy's post in 2013 that it's anything other than units worldwide. Edited May 12, 2017 by d_striker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eerw Posted May 13, 2017 Share Posted May 13, 2017 12 minutes ago, d_striker said: What's your point? I still haven't seen anything contrary to Troy's post in 2013 that it's anything other than units worldwide. I had asked Troy via email back in February and his response was 2000 produced and available in the US. I would guess that is what CZ-USA is waiting for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IHAVEGAS Posted May 13, 2017 Share Posted May 13, 2017 On 5/11/2017 at 1:55 PM, IHAVEGAS said: Frontsite magazine, Jan/Feb 2017, page 7 . If you are a USPSA member you should be able to go to their website & look it up for free. 24 minutes ago, d_striker said: What's your point? I still haven't seen anything contrary to Troy's post in 2013 that it's anything other than units worldwide. Also the weekly email USPSA DOWNRANGE , 4/20/17 says the same thing as the magazine. "USPSA Because I've been inundated with questions concerning some new guns coming out for Production, I thought I'd outline how the approval process works. First, USPSA/NROI does not actively solicit manufacturers for guns to add to the list. Once a manufacturer has produced enough of a certain model gun, they notify me and ask for the certification paperwork, which I provide. I also make every attempt to get my hands on the particular model gun (a lot of this is done at SHOT show, but there are other means), and examine it. Once the manufacturer has certified that they've met the required numbers (2,000 for Production, 500 for Carry Optics), they are available for sale to the general public in the United States and I've had a chance to examine the gun, it's added to the list. We don't wait, hold guns or update the list periodically — as soon as the certification process is met, the gun is added to the list within 24 hours, barring any unforeseen circumstances. All guns on the Production list that make weight are currently OK'd for CO; there may be a few coming out that will only be approved for CO for a little while, and there are a small number that will not be approved for CO due to weight, even though they may qualify for Production. Troy McManus, DNROI " And the general point that since we did what we did of our own choice and with no guarantees then we really do not have anything to be unhappy about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slavex Posted May 13, 2017 Share Posted May 13, 2017 so, okay, the Shadow, which is for sale in the USA and has been for awhile now, isn't approved, but guns that aren't available in the US get approved??? I'm so confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_striker Posted May 13, 2017 Share Posted May 13, 2017 4 minutes ago, slavex said: so, okay, the Shadow, which is for sale in the USA and has been for awhile now, isn't approved, but guns that aren't available in the US get approved??? I'm so confused. Me too. Apparently for some companies it's worldwide units and other's it's US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_striker Posted May 13, 2017 Share Posted May 13, 2017 31 minutes ago, eerw said: I had asked Troy via email back in February and his response was 2000 produced and available in the US. I would guess that is what CZ-USA is waiting for. Apparently Troy goes back and forth on how the protocol works. Back in 2013 he said it was units worldwide in response to a certain FN gun getting on the list when only one guy had one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WiII Posted May 13, 2017 Share Posted May 13, 2017 1 hour ago, d_striker said: Apparently Troy goes back and forth on how the protocol works. Back in 2013 he said it was units worldwide in response to a certain FN gun getting on the list when only one guy had one. Wasn't the stock II added to the list in 2013(I could be wrong here)? I'm pretty sure there was not 2000 of them in the US at the time. I'm guessing Troy's interpretation of 2000 units was clearly different in 2013 than now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_striker Posted May 13, 2017 Share Posted May 13, 2017 Just now, WiII said: Wasn't the stock II added to the list in 2013(I could be wrong here)? I'm pretty sure there was not 2000 of them in the US at the time. I'm guessing Troy's interpretation of 2000 units was clearly different in 2013 than now. I'm not sure about exact numbers in the US but it sure seemed like it was on the list before many people had them. Hence the "unicorn" moniker. It wasn't as bad as the FN situation though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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