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Ream or replace?


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I have a 16" KVP/Faxon 9mm barrel on my PCC. It groups 115gr WWB and my 124gr titegroup Glock load very well at 50 yards. It does not like my various 100gr, 115gr, 147gr loads that work for my Glocks. The 124gr load is too long for the throat.

 

I'm debating on buying a Manson reamer, or replace the barrel with a JP. Only cons with replacing is the added weight of the JP vs. KVP, and I already know my head space is good with the KVP bolt and barrel combo.

 

If you have reamed a Faxon/Kaw Valley barrel, did the finish cause and problems or chatter?

 

Thanks

 

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Hello: The KVP barrel I reamed worked great and would take loaded long rounds as well. I just bought another one for another light weight upper build. I will see if it needs to be reamed as well. You could also look at the Wilson Arms stainless steel barrel. I turned the gas block hub off the two I have. They are reamed perfectly and are very accurate. What would you sell your KVP barrel for? I have a JP barreled upper I may sell. Thanks, Eric

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I throat reamed my KVP 16" 9mm barrel with very little drama.  I'm setting a second identical gun up (but with iron sights) and will be reaming that one soon.

Since I had a Manson reamer I started with that one as Mansons are pretty cheap and I already owned it, then finished it off with a Clymer reamer i got for that job.  The Clymer is about .001" larger diameter than the Manson and is a bit better if you are going to shoot coated lead bullets. I've got almost 3k of lead/coated bullets down the pipe of mine and it is plenty accurate (minute of paster at the 20-25 yard range off bags) and i don't get leading, even when using cast lead (not coated) bullets. 

 

Use lots of lube and go slow.  There are different lubes that people have success with like heavy cutting oil (Ridgid pipe threading oil), but I've used Automatic Transmission Fluid either straight or with a splash of kerosene or JetA and have always had good finished results so that is what I used.

 

I had never throated a blow back rifle before and started a thread to ask if anyone knew of any pitfalls of throating a blow back rifle, and the thread became several pages with lots of people sharing their experience.  The title of the thread is:  "Throat Ream 9mm PCC?"  you can search for it and get more info there.   

 

Edited by Bamboo
pecking at a tablet is hit and miss!
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Bamboo, I've spent a lot of time reading your thread. Will the extra .001" make a difference? I only shoot plated and sometimes jacketed. My last search for a Clymer 9mm reamer came up as sold out.

Will the new throated area wear faster? I'm assuming it's not an issue being this is a pistol caliber.

 

Aircooled, being a used KVP, I would be thrilled to get $100 shipped for it. Right now I'm leaning towards reaming the throat.

 

This barrel is almost one hole group accurate @ 25 yards, but the good groups are 1.75" and bad are 4.5" @ 50 yards.

 

 

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Ihoward762 - the extra .001 would be nice if you are shooting coated or cast lead, but if you run only .355" plated it probably won't matter.   I got mine from Brownells, but understand you can order direct and even tailor the throat profile if you want a custom reamer.   You are correct, the bare metal exposed from reaming won't wear noticeably faster in a 9mm luger pcc, especially at our gamer velocities.  So, no worries there at all.   

 

I do wish Faxon/Kaw Valley would change their chambering tooling so the barrels would take longer loaded bullets.  Stock, the Kaw Valley won't take many common factory loads without jamming the bullet into the rifling (won't pass the plunk test), which is kind of nuts.    But, once reamed I've had no issues and the kaw valley barrel at 19 ounces is light and handles well.  I'm slowly piecing together another PCC with a kaw valley barrel and am thinking of doing some bench rest accuracy testing with quality jacketed bullets and  a high power target scope (T-36) and see what type of groups it yields at 100 and 200 yards.  

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You think Faxon/Kaw Valley and PSA would have noticed by now.

I ordered a Manson reamer and t-handle a few days ago. It looks like I might make my money back. A few USPSA and IDPA guys in my club want the throats in their CZ Scorpions and PSAs opened and lengthened.

Thanks for the help. I've spent too much time on here reading about throats and buffer weights.




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I have an NFA barrel that won't even chamber factory 115 Ball ammo.   The bullets jam into the rifling making extraction of a loaded round hard enough to pull a bullet requiring a rod to clear the barrel.    I have to load to 1.09 to clear the lands.   Since these blowback actions will fire out of battery I consider these short leades a safety issue.  

Why are we the ones that have to modify a DEFECTIVE barrel in order to maintain a safe condition?  These barrels should be recalled.   There is no good reason for these out of spec chambers except a mistake during manufacture.

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10 hours ago, vinconco said:

I have an NFA barrel that won't even chamber factory 115 Ball ammo.   The bullets jam into the rifling making extraction of a loaded round hard enough to pull a bullet requiring a rod to clear the barrel.    I have to load to 1.09 to clear the lands.   Since these blowback actions will fire out of battery I consider these short leades a safety issue.  

Why are we the ones that have to modify a DEFECTIVE barrel in order to maintain a safe condition?  These barrels should be recalled.   There is no good reason for these out of spec chambers except a mistake during manufacture.

 

My NFA Match barrel is pretty much the same as yours. Tried several different bullet weights & profiles. Only ones that work are 115 loaded right @ 1.09-1.10. Factory 115 will work, also @ 1.10.

 

What is the reason that most of the barrels are so tight? Seems like most all are having this problem.

 

gerritm

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On ‎3‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 7:30 AM, gerritm said:

 

My NFA Match barrel is pretty much the same as yours. Tried several different bullet weights & profiles. Only ones that work are 115 loaded right @ 1.09-1.10. Factory 115 will work, also @ 1.10.

 

What is the reason that most of the barrels are so tight? Seems like most all are having this problem.

 

gerritm

I think the barrel maker tried to chamber too many barrels with the same reamer.   The chambers progressively get smaller as the reamer wears or is re-sharpened.

They probably used a minimum spec reamer to start with.    I contacted NFA several times (anonymously) about the problem.   The last time I called I asked if they had any reports about this issue and they said I was the first.    Given that disingenuous response I believe there will be a lot of pushback on getting the issue resolved since all they have are out of spec barrels to replace mine with and the nitride barrels are next to impossible to ream.  My plan is to make a chamber cast with cerrosafe before I pursue the issue further.   I will be buying a JP barrel in the interim to keep the gun running.    I will post the results of my chamber cast.

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I reamed the throat Saturday. I learned the melonite finish is difficult to start cutting.

I ended up going deeper than planned, but I didn't loose any accuracy with factory 115gr, or my 124gr 1.145" handloads.

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I reamed the throat Saturday. I learned the melonite finish is difficult to start cutting.

I ended up going deeper than planned, but I didn't loose any accuracy with factory 115gr, or my 124gr 1.145" handloads.

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Going slow and using lots of cutting fluid are the keys.


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I still want to know why WE have to be the ones to correct this problem. 

I can't speak for you, but I corrected it because I want to use my rifle now and not wait around for the manufacturer to decide if and when they're going to do something about it.


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3 hours ago, 1911luvr said:


I can't speak for you, but I corrected it because I want to use my rifle now and not wait around for the manufacturer to decide if and when they're going to do something about it.


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I hear ya.... My plan is to just buy a proven barrel  (JP) and then battle NFA until I get a refund.

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It would be nice if some of the barrel vendors offer a match grade barrel with the leade already cut for loading coated bullets.  And when they do, they need to include that information in their advertising so we know which barrels will be good to go.

 

I may have missed it but even JP does not advertise this feature in their 9mm barrels.

 

I realize USPSA and 3 gun PCC shooters do not comprise a huge number of customers, but based on the amount of PCC stuff that is flying off the shelves, we are having some impact.

Edited by Flatland Shooter
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5 hours ago, Flatland Shooter said:

It would be nice if some of the barrel vendors offer a match grade barrel with the leade already cut for loading coated bullets.  And when they do, they need to include that information in their advertising so we know which barrels will be good to go.

 

I may have missed it but even JP does not advertise this feature in their 9mm barrels.

 

I realize USPSA and 3 gun PCC shooters do not comprise a huge number of customers, but based on the amount of PCC stuff that is flying off the shelves, we are having some impact.

I recently contacted JP with this question.  They replied that their chambers were SAAMI spec.   If you study a SAAMI chamber drawing the lead diameter is a minimum of .358" +.004 and the leade to rifling is .035 +.012     If I'm reading the drawing correctly there should be more than enough room for a coated bullet.

I will enclose the drawing.

9 mm SAAMI Spec.pdf

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I got the chamber cast done on the NFA 16" 9mm barrel and the results are what I expected

 

The chamber throat (area directly in front of the end of the case) measures .354" which is smaller than any 9mm bullet.

SAAMI Spec is .358  +.004  (this is why the round won't pass the "plunk" test and sticks when ejecting a loaded round

 

The rifling actually touches the case mouth on one side of the chamber and is approx. .068"  on the other side.  

That means the chamber was reamed off center.

 

 

 

9mm cast L.jpg

                                 

 

    180 degree rotation from previous pic

 

9mm cast R.jpg

9mm throat dia.jpg

Edited by vinconco
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I got the chamber cast done on the NFA 16" 9mm barrel and the results are what I expected
 
The chamber throat (area directly in front of the end of the case) measures .354" which is smaller than any 9mm bullet.
SAAMI Spec is .358  +.004  (this is why the round won't pass the "plunk" test and sticks when ejecting a loaded round
 
The rifling actually touches the case mouth on one side of the chamber and is approx. .068"  on the other side.  
That means the chamber was reamed off center.
 
 
 
58ce15e6ed946_9mmcastL.jpg.8ecdac26c37f9cd46e3defc69c50acef.jpg
                                 
 
                                      180 degree rotation from previous pic
 
58ce15ee596d8_9mmcastR.jpg.2ece74d52d5ecaffa622dad79bdf0b71.jpg
58ce15f7603d7_9mmthroatdia.jpg.32ea99230f9752ed706e6467cabb4afc.jpg

Nice work, but the only surprise would be if NFA actually does something about it to fix the product line.


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