Fault lines and cover, one second rule

[jbmac]

     I have shot a few matches under the 2017 rules. I am 63 and while I like most of the rule changes, I think the 1 sec rule is a farce! Shooters are dumping multiple rounds on target because adding an extra reload is less costly than points down, slowing down, even stopping or going back to put make up rounds on targets at the end of the stage. 

     I assumed the fault lines would be based on the old cover rule, that is, extend from the center of the innermost target to the edge of cover and to infinity. One of the matches I shot the fault lines (2x2) were so far in it was almost lmpossible to lean far enough to engage the last target. Apparently from my reading of the rule the MD can arbitrarily place them anywhere. Maybe we need to hang hand ropes like USPSA!

     

     

Edited March 6, 2017 by jbmac
Typo

[Jim Watson]

I am moderately accurate and quite slow, so 1:1 scoring has helped my standings with little change in "tactics."

 

I have seen fault lines both ways, requiring extreme lean - one I had to shift hands and shoot WHO around a very slanted left barricade - but also not enforcing traditional cover and allowing an erect stance. 

[rowdyb]

shot one local with them set up like the old ideas. made things very un-fun.

 

have now shot multiple locals with them kind of in the middle. much better!

[IronArcher]

1sec/point ruins the game for me.

Absolutely the opposite of what defensive shooting should be like IMO.

The ONLY thing that might keep this fun is throwing a bunch of insurance rounds down range.

 

 

- moderately old moderately fat guy.

[dhb]

Observations from the Florida State Championship last weekend.

The fault lines were white painted lines on the ground with an orange stick delineating the edge of the fault line. If your foot was on the stick, it was a fault. This worked really well and there was none of the "Did his foot touch down on the other side?" that happens when competitors are allowed to stand on the stick. I asked a bunch of competitors and SOs what they thought of it and the reactions were all positive except for one guy who thought it would confuse those who shoot USPSA.

In most of the stages the fault lines were lined up with the last target in an array. With this setup cover is effectively dead. It was amusing watching people slicing the pie while exposed to closer targets that were fully visible. Time to take tactical pretensions out of this game... On the few stages where the fault lines were lined up on the first target the arrays usually had no more than two targets spread across a very small arc. People were routinely losing their balance while trying to shoot the second target while leaning a lot.

I chatted with people about 1 SPPD. Nobody was a fan. It encourages very conservative shooting and shooting slower is less fun. Everyone I asked said they were shooting slower than they would in a gun fight. A few said this may be their last IDPA match as bullseye in a vest isn't entertaining. Looks like the 2017 rules will be good for USPSA/IPSC...

 

I won a Glock and spoke with the sponsors from Glock at the awards ceremony to say thanks and ask them to try to talk to IDPA (hoping HQ might listen to a major sponsor).  I said this is the last time I'll be spending a $1000 and taking 5 days to travel for a major IDPA match because 1SPPD is neither fun nor tactical.

[rowdyb]

I absolutely hated the fault line design at the Florida match and it is opposite of what everyone else in the world does with their fault lines. It's wrong. If you can't call a foot fault from someone standing on a stick to whether they touch the ground or not you're a poor SO.

 

Their placement relative to targets was great.

 

The 500+ Procedure penalties given at that match tells you a considerable amount.

[B_RAD]

I've shot a couple of monthly matches under the 2017 rules.

 

Not one time time have they used sticks. Sometimes they didn't use anything. All the other times they just painted. Which, seems like it's the least definitive way to call/know for sure since the painted lines are never straight and are not uniform along the edges.  I would love to see sticks like that other game uses but I known those are a pain to put down. 

 

One club used a combination of barrels and painted lines. We were told that the little void shaped like a V where two barrels were together did not exist and you would be faulting if you had your foot in there. 

 

I prefer the old scoring. The new scoring does slow it down, call for more make ups  and dumping of extra rounds.  But my goal is to be faster than Vogel and more accurate so, I just need to improve. How else am I gonna beat him?!

[MemphisMechanic]

1 hour ago, rowdyb said:

The 500+ Procedure penalties given at that match tells you a considerable amount.

 

Woah.

 

There had to be something that the bulk of those presents were given to the shooters for. What was it? The fault line issue?

 

Edited March 21, 2017 by MemphisMechanic

[rowdyb]

take a 3' long target stick, paint it a bright color, drill hole in each end, stake it down. done. it's not that hard people.....

 

or take a 2"x2" stick that's 3' long and do the same, then it's supper apparent if someone steps on the ground on the other side,

 

make like 20 or so of them. done.

 

yes, there are places and such for tape, rope, paint or whatever. but most ranges, most stages the stick is the gold standard. not some freakin' bi-color, bi-material thing.

Edited March 21, 2017 by rowdyb

[Jim Watson]

The next to last shoot I went to, 93% of the fault lines were 2x2s.  There were a couple of painted stripes on one stage.  Did they run out of boards?  Were they worried that a board might be a tripping hazard on those PoCs?  I dunno, but it was a jarring change to suddenly have to look at the ground for a place to stand instead of just toeing the board and cutting loose.

 

The latest I shot was the first effort at fault lines by the small local club.  They were reasonably placed and even the once-a-month shooters had little trouble getting used to them.  On the other hand, they were not taking advantage of the Traveling Reload and 1 sec scoring was an unpleasant surprise to some. 

[Mike62]

I use PVC for the fault lines I think people will actually use.  If a fault line is required because someone could do something silly like cross an opening and then decide to reengage targets, I use a painted line so there is one less thing to trip over.  IMHO IDPA had it right in the draft 2017 rulebook where they said MDs MAY use fault lines.  Having to add extra fault lines to a stage to try to cover every inefficient game plan a shooter may try adds unnecessary setup/tear down and potential trip hazards.  That said after running a major match with them I think most folks liked having fault lines. 

 

My 2 major gripes

 

1.) Go back to the old scoring, no one likes Joyce & Bill count.

2.) Go back to the old IDPA box sizes for BUG and CCP.  People invested their hard earned money to play in those new divisions and IDPA rewarded their patronage by forcing them to buy yet another gun and rendering their old pistols useless for this game.

 

Here's looking forward to the 2018 rulebook or perhaps they will just keep changing the 2017 version without telling anyone.

[BillR1]

I like the 1 second/point down rule. Enhancing and rewarding accuracy is always a good thing IMO.

The fault lines were long overdue. There was far too much subjectivity and inconsistency with SOs calling cover. The fault lines largely eliminate this.

IDPA is not tactical, and it's surely not "real world". It's simply another game. Some people will like the rules, and some won't. That part sounds just about like any other game. 

[Solvability]

I really did not think it mattered - same folks on top as before as far as I can see, but I like a requirement that pushes accuracy.

[v1911]

Our club has been using the fault lines for a few months now. We've tried a few methods of what to use for fault lines and I think the club is going to settle on the dimensions of the sticks we use for our target stands. The 1 sec rule doesn't really bother me. It was the CCP/BUG dimensions and the last minute head box change that pissed me off.

[IronArcher]

If you want a game that pushes accuracy, try bullseye shooting.


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[B_RAD]

18 hours ago, IronArcher said:

If you want a game that pushes accuracy, try bullseye shooting.


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^^^^yes!

 

I think a stiffer penalty for misses and no shoots wouldn't  have been a bad change.  

Edited March 22, 2017 by B_RAD

[IronArcher]

I agree!


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[MemphisMechanic]

If they want to make it real life, can we drop back to the original 0.3 sec per point down...

 

and if you plug a noshoot then you have to sign over your car and home to IDPA, in simulation to what the lawyers might do to you?

 

(I'd love to see a 30 second noshoot penalty, all jokes aside. I think THAT would be a very interesting change in tactics for us gamers.)

[IronArcher]

Now you're sounding like USPSA!
Ironically, at the exact same time, you're also sounding like a more realistic self defense shooter....


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