DW Valor .45 Still Competitive in USPSA SS?

[raven5]

Heh, yea I definitely like the idea of the larger hole of the 45. I think I will hold off on the 45 now then unless it becomes an amazing deal rather than just a good deal. I'll try to rent the Springfield Armory Range Officer and shoot a box of .45 the next time I head out to the range and see about the timing you mentioned troupe.

I have shot two .40s before, and both were pretty manageable. Certainly a lot more than my 9mm but not enough to make me feel like I can't shoot it proficiently.

The Valor is an awesome 1911, and still probably the best bargain as far as price and quality coming together. I got lucky and picked mine up hardly used for $995 a few years ago.

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[zzt]

Slvr, here is the deal on the "timing" troupe is talking about.  I'll talk specifically 1911s, since that is what you are interested in.  The heavier and slower the bullet, the softer the recoil feels, but the slow the sights come back.  The lighter and faster the bullet, the harder it hits your hand, but your follow up shot is quicker.  One of my shooting buddies shoots 45 for Limited.  He was using 230gr bullets and complaining that everyone was beating his splits.  I told him to try 185gr bullets.  Eventually he did and was amazed at the difference in muzzle rise.  He shoots a lot better, and more quickly with the 185s.

 

Another friend also shoots 40 Major.  Almost everyone shoots 180s for Limited, because the recoil feels softer.  I've gone to 165s because I feel I'm back on target a shade faster.  He only shoots 155s for the same reason, and cannot understand how anyone would shoot 180s.

 

Since you are having trouble deciding, here are some other considerations.  You currently shoot a CZ for Production.  You can add a dovetail adapter and mount a reflex red dot and shoot the same gun in Carry optics.  Now that the round limit in mags has been removed, you have the mag capacity of Limited shooters and the optical sight of Open shooters.  It should be a hoot, and a lot different than Production.

 

If you go this route, which 1911 you buy becomes less important.  If you ever want to shoot bullseye, you'll need a 45.  If not, you have the same options as before. 

[steviesterno]

40 is really popular because if you're already set up to shoot limited, and swimming in brass and bullets, why not get a 40 and play. 

 

45 is a great round to run in 1911, it just feels good to shoot and the big holes are certainly fun. 9mm is also a blast, and if you're just wanting to play and going to shoot factory I would suggest it. 

 

But a Les Baer is a working gun, not a pretty gun. they are hard and hand fit, and run. my competition Concept V has probably 40k rounds through it (major 45) and my TRS has pushing 3k rounds and is tight as accurate as all get out. 

 

Baers are some of the most accurate I've shot, at a price point that I don't think is crazy. Not worth new prices with their recent jump in prices, but certainly used. great guns. 

 

 

 

 

unless you reload or are dead set on major, I vote Range Officer in 9mm. never get tired shooting those. 

[terrydoc]

If you bought a 2nd hand .40 one would hope all the bugs had been worked out of it !!!!

[SlvrDragon50]

55 minutes ago, terrydoc said:

If you bought a 2nd hand .40 one would hope all the bugs had been worked out of it !!!!

Yea, that's what I was going for. I figure the people here know what they're doing and would either have the bugs worked out or at least be up front and tell me that it needs more gunsmithing. 

 

steviesterno, I see Premier 2s going for ~1700, don't really see them used going for much less? Do I just need to be patient?

[SV650Squid]

12 hours ago, f2benny said:

If you're itching to buy something get a 650 and make 2500 rounds with that $1350.

This.

 

Skip gun, buy reloading setup for gun you already have and practice.

[zzt]

2 hours ago, terrydoc said:

If you bought a 2nd hand .40 one would hope all the bugs had been worked out of it !!!!

 

Or he might be unloading it because he couldn't figure out how to make it run.

 

Slvr, you don't have to spring for a Les Baer.  He makes good pistols that take a while to break in.  My buddy just got a Premier 2 in 45.  IMO, it is not worth the $1850 he paid for it.

[SlvrDragon50]

3 hours ago, zzt said:

 

Or he might be unloading it because he couldn't figure out how to make it run.

 

Slvr, you don't have to spring for a Les Baer.  He makes good pistols that take a while to break in.  My buddy just got a Premier 2 in 45.  IMO, it is not worth the $1850 he paid for it.

Yea, I'll see if the seller is willing to go down on the price. If not, then the DW isn't meant for me is how I'll think about it, and the money just goes back to the Shadow 2 fund which I will happily spend money on  Plus I won't have to rebuy mags and pouches. I looked at a 1911 shootout, and hte DW Valor actually outperformed the Les Baer pretty consistently.

 

Whew, the pistol sold so no more pressure Learned a ton though from this thread I think when I pick up a 1911, it'll be a .40 for USPSA or a .45 for a range toy.

Edited March 3, 2017 by SlvrDragon50

[polymerfeelsweirdman]

20 hours ago, SlvrDragon50 said:

Hah, if only I had the money for that. Poor college student unfortunately! I guess my next question is... is a Les Baer Premier 2 really worth the extra 350-500 over the used DW Valor? It seems like a Les Baer is the gun to get around the 1700-2000 range. I wish I could rent these guns and just try them out myself :|

The DW guns have triggers that smoke the LB and Springfield triggers. The DW is what I would get. You save several hundred over the LB (not sure why you're buying a used Valor at 1350 when new they are like 100 more or a new blem goes for about 1350), you have nicer finishes, probably better reliability, not having to deal with the ridiculously hard fit slide and frame in the LB for the first couple thousand rounds, and you get throughout great parts with good sights that granted are not ideal for uspsa. Versus the Springfield you get serrations, checkering, and higher quality parts throughout. Versus the STI you pay a little more for probably much more quality. 

 

There is also the DW PM9 which I have considered buying many times. It basically just needs a magwell. You get to save on ammo cost but deal with inherently less reliability since it isn't a long round and it is tapered in a single stack mag. 

[SlvrDragon50]

1 hour ago, polymerfeelsweirdman said:

The DW guns have triggers that smoke the LB and Springfield triggers. The DW is what I would get. You save several hundred over the LB (not sure why you're buying a used Valor at 1350 when new they are like 100 more or a new blem goes for about 1350), you have nicer finishes, probably better reliability, not having to deal with the ridiculously hard fit slide and frame in the LB for the first couple thousand rounds, and you get throughout great parts with good sights that granted are not ideal for uspsa. Versus the Springfield you get serrations, checkering, and higher quality parts throughout. Versus the STI you pay a little more for probably much more quality. 

 

There is also the DW PM9 which I have considered buying many times. It basically just needs a magwell. You get to save on ammo cost but deal with inherently less reliability since it isn't a long round and it is tapered in a single stack mag. 

Where are you finding DW Valors for 1350? I see all of them at like 1650-1700.

[JGus]

Just my opinion, but many are overthinking the actual gun.  I've been collecting 1911's for many years, and I have a lot of them. I have everything from custom, semi custom, and production 1911's.  I own them in 9mm, 40s&w, and 45acp.  And you know what?  They will all work just fine for what you will need for USPSA competition.  Hell, even a Taurus or RIA will work fine for most with a few improvements.  I own DW's, and they are great 1911's for the money. I own LB's, and they are great guns for the money. You won't go wrong with either.  But with improvements in manufacturing, so are many of the production 1911's. I own STI Trojans and Springfield RO's, and they will work great. I've owned a Sig Max, and it will work great.  It's highly unlikely (and I mean no offense) that your skill level (or mine and most of us that shoot USPSA) will outshoot most any of the production guns (Springfield RO), let alone semi-customs like LB's or DW's.  Don't overthink the gun. Yes, the higher the quality parts, gunsmithing, etc., the longer the competitive life of the gun, better initial trigger and reliability, etc.  But pick the right caliber for you, purchase reliable mags, spend some time improving the trigger (even the semi customs need this), and go shoot.

 

If you do go with .40s&w over .45acp, you will want to reload, for as others have said, you will want a longer OAL than factory .40 to avoid feed issues.  Even a good mag can't fix that (I know from experience).

 

SlvrDragon50, I also see you're in Urbana.  I'm in Springfield.  If you are ever at Lefthanders matches, i would be glad to bring an assortment of many different 1911's and calibers to let you try them out.

 

 

Edited March 3, 2017 by JGus

[SlvrDragon50]

10 minutes ago, JGus said:

Just my opinion, but many are overthinking the actual gun.  I've been collecting 1911's for many years, and I have a lot of them. I have everything from custom, semi custom, and production 1911's.  I own them in 9mm, 40s&w, and 45acp.  And you know what?  They will all work just fine for what you will need for USPSA competition.  Hell, even a Taurus or RIA will work fine for most with a few improvements.  I own DW's, and they are great 1911's for the money. I own LB's, and they are great guns for the money. You won't go wrong with either.  But with improvements in manufacturing, so are many of the production 1911's. I own STI Trojans and Springfield RO's, and they will work great. I've owned a Sig Max, and it will work great.  It's highly unlikely (and I mean no offense) that your skill level (or mine and most of us that shoot USPSA) will outshoot most any of the production guns (Springfield RO), let alone semi-customs like LB's or DW's.  Don't overthink the gun. Yes, the higher the quality parts, gunsmithing, etc., the longer the competitive life of the gun, better initial trigger and reliability, etc.  But pick the right caliber for you, purchase reliable mags, spend some time improving the trigger (even the semi customs need this), and go shoot.

 

If you do go with .40s&w over .45acp, you will want to reload, for as others have said, you will want a longer OAL than factory .40 to avoid feed issues.  Even a good mag can't fix that (I know from experience).

 

SlvrDragon50, I also see you're in Urbana.  I'm in Springfield.  If you are ever at Lefthanders matches, i would be glad to bring an assortment of many different 1911's and calibers to let you try them out.

 

 

Thanks for the offer! Perhaps over summer. I usually shoot the weekly matches at CI Shooting Sports in Bloomington. You're definitely right in that they'll all outperform me as I'm a C shooter at best. I just very much prefer to buy once  I think skipping on the 45 was the right decision though because I definitely can't afford to shoot it right now. I'm looking at the SIG Max in .40 which seems like the best .40 to get currently, especially with the price increase on the STI Trojans. Did the SIG Max suffer from factory .40 feeding issues as well? Or did you pretty much reload from the start?

 

 

[JGus]

52 minutes ago, SlvrDragon50 said:

Thanks for the offer! Perhaps over summer. I usually shoot the weekly matches at CI Shooting Sports in Bloomington. You're definitely right in that they'll all outperform me as I'm a C shooter at best. I just very much prefer to buy once  I think skipping on the 45 was the right decision though because I definitely can't afford to shoot it right now. I'm looking at the SIG Max in .40 which seems like the best .40 to get currently, especially with the price increase on the STI Trojans. Did the SIG Max suffer from factory .40 feeding issues as well? Or did you pretty much reload from the start?

 

 

 

From my experience and in talking to others, almost always the issue with 40 are feed problems from too short OAL and mag problems. I'm not familiar with any issues with the Sig Max 40 other than too short OAL or insufficient mags. Virgil Tripp is probably the best know for curing the problems of the earlier STI Trojan 40 feed ramp issues.  I had a conversation with an STI rep about a year ago and he said that the STI Trojans had undergone two revisions to the feed ramp, to the point where they were creating a feed ramp identical to what Virgil was doing to the feed ramp, so for any Trojans built in the last few years (ones with smaller rollmarks on slide) should have the improved feed ramp.  Now don't take that as the gospel as that's just what I was told!  If that is incorrect don't shoot the messenger.

 

There are some excellent Single Stack shooters at CISS Tuesday night matches with a lot of experience with different 1911's.  Talk to Mark Kastorff, Matt Painter, Kyle Smith, Noel Zarza, to name a few.  Mark is shooting a McLearn custom 40 (I think it's a 40?), Painter is shooting a Carter Custom Trojan 40, Noel is shooting a Gans Custom 40 but was shooting a Sig Max 40, Kyle is shooting Trojan 9 and 40's with upgraded trigger systems.  They are great guys with a lot of knowledge to help you with your decision. 

Edited March 3, 2017 by JGus

[SlvrDragon50]

1 minute ago, JGus said:

 

From my experience and in talking to others, almost always the issue with feed problems is too short OAL and mag problems.  Virgil Tripp is probably the best know for curing the problems of the earlier Trojan 40 feed ramp issues.  I had a conversation with an STI rep about a year ago and he said that the STI Trojans had undergone two revisions to the feed ramp, to the point where they were creating a feed ramp identical to what Virgil was doing to the feed ramp, so for any Trojans built in the last few years (ones with smaller rollmarks on slide) should have the improved feed ramp.  Now don't take that as the gospel as that's just what I was told!  If that is incorrect don't shoot the messenger.

 

There are some excellent Single Stack shooters at CISS Tuesday night matches with a lot of experience with different 1911's.  Talk to Mark Kastorff, Matt Painter, Kyle Smith, Noel Zarza, to name a few.  Mark is shooting a McLearn custom 40 (I think it's a 40?), Painter is shooting a Carter Custom Trojan 40, Noel is shooting a Gans Custom 40 but was shooting a Sig Max 40, Kyle is shooting Trojan 9 and 40's with upgraded trigger systems.  They are great guys with a lot of knowledge to help you with your decision. 

Haha, yea I always watch Kyle since he's insanely fast though I think he got DQd this week when he shot the ceiling during a reload... For some reason whenever I follow him, I always end up trying to shoot like him and push myself too fast  Lately Noel has been shooting Open I believe, but I may be wrong (and he usually only shoots one run). I'll have to talk to Noel the next time I see him. The Sig Max 40 looks pretty sweet since I don't think I'd really have to buy anything other than mags to get running. Gonna have to bug all these guys  

[JGus]

2 minutes ago, SlvrDragon50 said:

Haha, yea I always watch Kyle since he's insanely fast though I think he got DQd this week when he shot the ceiling during a reload... For some reason whenever I follow him, I always end up trying to shoot like him and push myself too fast  Lately Noel has been shooting Open I believe, but I may be wrong (and he usually only shoots one run). I'll have to talk to Noel the next time I see him. The Sig Max 40 looks pretty sweet since I don't think I'd really have to buy anything other than mags to get running. Gonna have to bug all these guys  

 

Yeah, Kyle is an A class SS shooter, and he sent me video of his DQ.  He is right handed and was moving right to left during a reload and it happened as he hit the reload. The gun was pointed somewhat upright but hit the ceiling safely downrange. As with all DQ's, it's a learning experience.

[SlvrDragon50]

1 minute ago, JGus said:

 

Yeah, Kyle is an A class SS shooter, and he sent me video of his DQ.  He is right handed and was moving right to left during a reload and it happened as he hit the reload. The gun was pointed somewhat upright but hit the ceiling safely downrange. As with all DQ's, it's a learning experience.

I felt terrible for him since the squads filled up so fast on Tuesday. He was ROing for a good 2-3 hours and he got DQd on his first run. I was already packing up, but I just saw a cloud of white stuff coming down from the ceiling through the window   I'm still waiting for my DQ to happen hah.

[glazer1972]

A Valor is sure enough a nice 1911 with zero MIM parts in it.