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DW Valor .45 Still Competitive in USPSA SS?


SlvrDragon50

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Since the CZ Shadow 2 is taking forever to release, I am itching to spend my money. I've been wanting a 1911 for a while, but I don't care for range toys. I want every gun I have to be useful for competitions. A DW Valor popped up for a pretty good deal w/ 3 mags for 1350, but it's chambered in .45. I don't reload (yet) so I'm hesitant to pick it up since I don't think I can afford the cost yet. Also, it seems like .40 is the thing to shoot now in SS since you can load major or minor + Tripp mags.

 

Someone talk me out of the Valor please :D Seems like a SA Range Officer in 9mm a used STI Trojan in .40 would be a more competitive choice? Or even the SIG 1911 Max.

Edited by SlvrDragon50
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I'm not sure why you think a .45 wouldn't be competitive? SS major is limited to 8 rounds regardless. The only downfall is cost of factory ammo.

 

IMO the RO, Trojan or Max are better value. You'll still have to throw money at the DW to get it comp ready.

Edited by js1130146
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1 minute ago, js1130146 said:

I'm not sure why you think a .45 wouldn't be competitive? SS major is limited to 8 rounds regardless. The only downfall is cost of factory ammo.

 

I guess I don't see why you would want to shoot a .45 if a .40 still makes major with less recoil?

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Just now, SlvrDragon50 said:

 

I guess I don't see why you would want to shoot a .45 if a .40 still makes major with less recoil?

It's not less recoil. At the same PF the recoil force should be very similar. Generally speaking, the .40 will have a lighter bullet going faster than the .45

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1 minute ago, js1130146 said:

It's not less recoil. At the same PF the recoil force should be very similar. Generally speaking, the .40 will have a lighter bullet going faster than the .45

Okay, well perhaps the word competitive wasn't right choice. I guess I see little point in going with the more expensive .45 option if the .40 is able to do the same. Like you said in the other thread, the SIG Max looks pretty sweet (though it's certainly not a DW).

 

In all honesty, I'm trying to find a reason to not buy this DW, but my gut is telling me to pick it up since I'd likely be able to resell it for a similar amount.

Edited by SlvrDragon50
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Just now, SlvrDragon50 said:

Okay, well perhaps the word competitive wasn't right choice. I guess I see little point in going with the more expensive .45 option if the .40 is able to do the same. Like you said in the other thread, the SIG Max looks pretty sweet (though it's certainly not a DW).

It all comes down to preference haha. I happen to prefer .45. And once you reload the cost ends up being a small difference anyway.

 

If you want to shoot the skinny gun on a budget get an RO in 9mm. Cheaper (but still solid) gun and cheap ammo.

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2 minutes ago, js1130146 said:

It all comes down to preference haha. I happen to prefer .45. And once you reload the cost ends up being a small difference anyway.

 

If you want to shoot the skinny gun on a budget get an RO in 9mm. Cheaper (but still solid) gun and cheap ammo.

Could you share why you prefer .45? Just what you're used to? I've been reading that .45s tend to be more reliable out of box than .40s in the 1911 platform, but that is the only thing going against .40.


I guess the other reason why I'm hesitating with .45 is because I'm still more likely to shoot my 9mm Production and reload 9mm so .40 wouldn't be that drastic of a change in terms of small vs large for the .45. I'm leaning against the 9mm since while it gives you a slight advantage in terms of 10 rds, it seems like major scoring is still needed to win the big stuff so I'd prefer to just start with major.

Edited by SlvrDragon50
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12 minutes ago, SlvrDragon50 said:

Could you share why you prefer .45? Just what you're used to?

Well mostly 2 reasons. I already had a couple .45s and i was already reloading .45. Cost was a non issue and compatibility between them was big for me. If I was starting over I'd give .40 a hard look because of the versatility, but there's just something about a 1911 in .45

 

And 9mm comp 1911 is on my list, I just can't justify the cost quite yet

Edited by js1130146
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Actually, there is a very slight advantage with the slower velocity heavier loads. Not enough to factor into your decision though. 

 

I shot USPSA for 2 yrs with a DW valor. Slap a magwell on it and you will be set. IMO DWs are the best value on the market considering their workmanship, features, and price.  

 

Note that 40 cal is the minimum cal allowed for USPSA Limited major.  That's one reason you see a lot of 40s. 

Edited by jwhittin
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4 hours ago, f2benny said:

If you're itching to buy something get a 650 and make 2500 rounds with that $1350.

I don't have space for a reloading station and won't have space until I move at the end of summer, and I already got 2k rounds 9mm currently. I shoot maybe 50-100 rounds per week.

 

51 minutes ago, jwhittin said:

Actually, there is a very slight advantage with the slower velocity heavier loads. Not enough to factor into your decision though. 

 

I shot USPSA for 2 yrs with a DW valor. Slap a magwell on it and you will be set. IMO DWs are the best value on the market considering their workmanship, features, and price.  

 

Note that 40 cal is the minimum cal allowed for USPSA Limited major.  That's one reason you see a lot of 40s. 

So there's nothing proprietary on the DW right? I can pretty much put any 1911 part I want on the Valor?

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Hello: I like shooting a 45, 40 and a 9mm 1911. They all are different but my favorite is the 9mm. Shooting minor 9mm in an all steel pistol is sweet. For local matches a 9mm will do just fine. If you intend to go to nationals then I would choose a 40 or 45 in major. Don't reload by a 9mm. Reload, pick one and don't second guess yourself. If you are looking at 9mm 1911's the Springfield Limited is a very good option if you can find one. The Sig Max is also a good one with lots of very good parts in it. Thanks, Eric

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1 hour ago, SlvrDragon50 said:

So there's nothing proprietary on the DW right? I can pretty much put any 1911 part I want on the Valor?

 

That is correct.  Standard parts will fit. Lots of options.  

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Lots of top shooters still use 45. there are good reasons to go 40 if you are also shooting limited alot, but really the only downside of 45 imho is brass is somewhat less available. If you shoot 200gr bullets, the cost difference over 40 is not really worth worrying about, and in general, 45's require less care and feeding to get them to run and keep running.

 

some people tout the ability to shoot either major or minor with 40, but I have yet to meet anyone who actually does shoot 40 minor without any issues. Besides, the whole point isn't to own fewer guns. If you want to be able to choose between major and minor, sack up and get a 9mm 1911 too. then get another one (and another 45) as backups.

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7 minutes ago, motosapiens said:

Lots of top shooters still use 45. there are good reasons to go 40 if you are also shooting limited alot, but really the only downside of 45 imho is brass is somewhat less available. If you shoot 200gr bullets, the cost difference over 40 is not really worth worrying about, and in general, 45's require less care and feeding to get them to run and keep running.

 

some people tout the ability to shoot either major or minor with 40, but I have yet to meet anyone who actually does shoot 40 minor without any issues. Besides, the whole point isn't to own fewer guns. If you want to be able to choose between major and minor, sack up and get a 9mm 1911 too. then get another one (and another 45) as backups.

Hah, if only I had the money for that. Poor college student unfortunately! I guess my next question is... is a Les Baer Premier 2 really worth the extra 350-500 over the used DW Valor? It seems like a Les Baer is the gun to get around the 1700-2000 range. I wish I could rent these guns and just try them out myself :|

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Here is my take.  You don't reload, and may decide not to.  You can purchase 9mm ammo from Blaser, Freedom Munitions and several other places for 20-21 cents per round.  40sw ammo pushes that to 22-23 cents per.  45 is gong to cost you 26-30 cents per.

 

If you do decide to reload, 9mm processed brass will cost you 2.5 cents each for once-fired, vs. 3 cents for 40 and 5-8 cents for 45.  40sw bullets will cost 33% more than 9mm.  45 bullets will cost 46% more.

 

I love my 1911s and shoot them a lot, but not at lost brass matches.  I paid 8.5 cents each for same headstamp brass for bullseye, and don't want to lose it.  I also shoot 40 Major and Minor.  I owned a custom 9mm gun and sold it.  I'm about to build two 9mms, one a 1911 and the other a hicap for steel and games.  I'll most likely shoot factory 9mm ammo.

 

The most versatile caliber is 40sw.  You can load it way down for steel, less down for Minor, up for Major, and even more for 40 Open.  You can pick up as much brass as you want for free if you don't mind sorting and processing it yourself.  You can shoot SS Major with 8 rounds or SS Minor with 10 if you like, without compromises except for scoring.  Steel goes down quicker when hit with 40 Minor than it does with 9mm.

 

If I were starting all over again, knowing what I now know, my choice for a games would be 40sw for the reasons above.  I have two of them.  One is a CZ TS, the other is a 2011.  I have zero problems running the TS with a 135gr bullet at 109FP for Steel, or a 180 at 172PF for Limited.  My 2011 only likes Major, because it is an Open gun.  

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1 minute ago, motosapiens said:

If I were on a tight budget, I would just get a springfield RO and spend the rest of the money on ammo.

les baer makes pretty guns, but competition and training for competition is hard on pretty guns.

I wasn't aware of that. I thought that the Les baers were built for competition! I think just reading so much talk about frame-slide fit was selling me on the Valor and Les Baer PIIs. Realistically, that's not gonna make a difference in my shaky hands. Will have to look into a Springfield RO again.

 

1 minute ago, zzt said:

Here is my take.  You don't reload, and may decide not to.  You can purchase 9mm ammo from Blaser, Freedom Munitions and several other places for 20-21 cents per round.  40sw ammo pushes that to 22-23 cents per.  45 is gong to cost you 26-30 cents per.

 

If you do decide to reload, 9mm processed brass will cost you 2.5 cents each for once-fired, vs. 3 cents for 40 and 5-8 cents for 45.  40sw bullets will cost 33% more than 9mm.  45 bullets will cost 46% more.

 

I love my 1911s and shoot them a lot, but not at lost brass matches.  I paid 8.5 cents each for same headstamp brass for bullseye, and don't want to lose it.  I also shoot 40 Major and Minor.  I owned a custom 9mm gun and sold it.  I'm about to build two 9mms, one a 1911 and the other a hicap for steel and games.  I'll most likely shoot factory 9mm ammo.

 

The most versatile caliber is 40sw.  You can load it way down for steel, less down for Minor, up for Major, and even more for 40 Open.  You can pick up as much brass as you want for free if you don't mind sorting and processing it yourself.  You can shoot SS Major with 8 rounds or SS Minor with 10 if you like, without compromises except for scoring.  Steel goes down quicker when hit with 40 Minor than it does with 9mm.

 

If I were starting all over again, knowing what I now know, my choice for a games would be 40sw for the reasons above.  I have two of them.  One is a CZ TS, the other is a 2011.  I have zero problems running the TS with a 135gr bullet at 109FP for Steel, or a 180 at 172PF for Limited.  My 2011 only likes Major, because it is an Open gun.  

I think you've sold me. .45 seems to be a nice caliber to have, but it's just not a smart investment for me at my current point in life, especially since I want to focus on Production. I wish they made more .40 1911s! It's been tough to find some. Seems like SIG and Para are the only ones making them.

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12 minutes ago, SlvrDragon50 said:

I wasn't aware of that. I thought that the Les baers were built for competition! I think just reading so much talk about frame-slide fit was selling me on the Valor and Les Baer PIIs. Realistically, that's not gonna make a difference in my shaky hands. Will have to look into a Springfield RO again.

 

tight frame/slide fit is aesthetically pleasing, but not all that relevant to accuracy imh o. my super-tight 1911's are no more accurate than my fairly sloppy cz's (extremely accurate, btw), and the 1911's are much more prone to issues in cold weather if I don't remember to use extra-light oil.

 

Quote

I wish they made more .40 1911s! It's been tough to find some. Seems like SIG and Para are the only ones making them.

you can still find plenty of sti trojans in 40, although I heard they are discontinuing that caliber (which seems slightly bizarre to me, but whatever).

Edited by motosapiens
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What I think Moto and others are getting at is RELIABILITY is #1 in our game everything else is way down the list, and pretty doesn't make the list at all. I had 2 failures to feed at the WSSSC (shooting factory ammo) this year and it cost me about 9 places in the overall. Unless there is something wrong with it just about any off the shelf 1911 will be plenty accurate for what we do (including 50yd standards) 

 

 

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14 minutes ago, MikeBurgess said:

What I think Moto and others are getting at is RELIABILITY is #1 in our game everything else is way down the list, and pretty doesn't make the list at all. I had 2 failures to feed at the WSSSC (shooting factory ammo) this year and it cost me about 9 places in the overall. Unless there is something wrong with it just about any off the shelf 1911 will be plenty accurate for what we do (including 50yd standards) 

 

 

I was under the impression that a 1911 in .40 could be made reliable, but it just took a bit more gunsmithing to get it there? I'm so conflicted :( I've decided against a 9mm (or minor, really) 1911 for SS since I figure I might as well just shoot production.

 

I luckily haven't had any failures shooting my CZ in production, but all the failures I've seen have been shooting .40s in 1911/2011 platforms now that you mention it... Is the unreliability issue with .40 only with factory ammo?

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Slvr, the 1911 was designed around ammo that was 1.200" or longer.  The SAAMI length for 40sw is 1.135".  That is considerably shorter.  Many shooters have to load long, as in 1.180" or more to get their gun to feed properly.  A lot of this is feed ramp, bullet profile, mag catch and magazine related.  You might have to tweak one or more of them.  Same thing with 9mm.  Since you are not going to shoot Minor, you will have no trouble getting good, reliable mags that will feed 8 +1.  It's really only when you get to nine (some mags) or 10 (special Tripps) that you sometimes run into problems.

 

You can buy 40sw ammo loaded to Major in regular or long from Atlanta Arms.  Save the brass for when you reload.

 

BTW, you may have absolutely no problem with regular factory ammo.  My 2011 feeds and cycles perfectly with the same 1.126" load I use for the CZ.   With the MBX mags I use, it actually feeds better than with long loaded.

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1 -  The 45 is generally a more accurate round, not saying that a 40 is not accurate, but most of the time, a well fit 45 will shoot rings around a 40.

2 -  The 45 cuts a larger hole in the target and we all know that benefit.

3 -  The 45 can be a very soft shooting pistol and yes the heavier bullet is slower, but who is waiting on the bullet to get to the target.  I don't think that there is a advantage in the faster round, if you can take advantage of the faster bullet, then I think you should have already won the World title.

4 -  It takes a lot for the old 45 to not be reliable.

5 -  For me, the timing is better on the 45, as in the recoil impulse.  I am not fast enough to tell that the 40 would be better.

 

Just my thoughts only.  Good luck with your choice.

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Heh, yea I definitely like the idea of the larger hole of the 45. I think I will hold off on the 45 now then unless it becomes an amazing deal rather than just a good deal. I'll try to rent the Springfield Armory Range Officer and shoot a box of .45 the next time I head out to the range and see about the timing you mentioned troupe.


I have shot two .40s before, and both were pretty manageable. Certainly a lot more than my 9mm but not enough to make me feel like I can't shoot it proficiently.

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