sbgruen Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 Hello - I just picked up a new 650 a month ago and have crushed the Primer Arm Indexer and it's spring 2 times. Dillon is now sending me a third one. the first one lasted about 300 rounds and the last one about 50. I've cleaned and lubricated everything and at this point Dillon helpline asked me to separate the brass in to different head stamps. I think that they are stumped too. I've never owned a 650 before but have run a 550 for 20+ years and I can't see a connection between head stamps and crushing the primer indexing arm.... Looking for any help or suggestions from the Enosphere. Thanks Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDA Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 Are you possibly using a large magazine tube with small primers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbgruen Posted March 1, 2017 Author Share Posted March 1, 2017 1 hour ago, TDA said: Are you possibly using a large magazine tube with small primers? It's small pistol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiggerJJ Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 The only time I have problems like this is when a primer gets cockeyed in the wheel somewhere and locks it up. Have you tried different primers? The lot you have could be oversized or out of round... jj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbgruen Posted March 1, 2017 Author Share Posted March 1, 2017 10 minutes ago, RiggerJJ said: The only time I have problems like this is when a primer gets cockeyed in the wheel somewhere and locks it up. Have you tried different primers? The lot you have could be oversized or out of round... jj Been running win sp but I do have federals. They warn against using them though... and with issues already I'd hate to have a detonation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiggerJJ Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 I like win primers, but have had a lot of trubs with them lately in their sizing and just general assembly. The cup could be undersized or oversized or even stamped off center. And the anvil could be sticking out a bit too far. I would try some different ones, at least a different lot number...recommend CCI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 9 minutes ago, sbgruen said: Been running win sp but I do have federals. They warn against using them though... and with issues already I'd hate to have a detonation Millions of fed primers have been run through Dillons without issue. They are sensitive but not so sensitive to preclude using them on a 650 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmz Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 (edited) At what point is this happening ? The four bottom stroke of the machine ? Or the upstroke when your seating the primer ? Are you actually bending the arm or just the index tab that inserts into the primer wheel ? In order for you to crush the indexed arm something is hanging up the primer wheel if it was a primer you would find a crashed primer in there. You should also check the primer seating assembly to make sure it's fully coming out of the primer wheel on the upstroke when the primer indexes if it's not it will hold the wheel in place and cause damage to the index arm. Edited March 1, 2017 by tmz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muncie21 Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 Any chance the primer punch/seater assy is loose or bent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lgh Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 21 hours ago, sbgruen said: Been running win sp but I do have federals. They warn against using them though... and with issues already I'd hate to have a detonation I know that Lee does not recommend using federal primers in their old hand priming units but who warns against federal primers in a 650? I wasn't aware of this and have never had a problem with any primer in my old 650. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, lgh said: I know that Lee does not recommend using federal primers in their old hand priming units but who warns against federal primers in a 650? I wasn't aware of this and have never had a problem with any primer in my old 650. Dillon did at one time I believe but I just checked their forums and only see that they advise caution when using soft federal pistol primers Edited March 2, 2017 by Sarge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbgruen Posted March 2, 2017 Author Share Posted March 2, 2017 19 hours ago, muncie21 said: Any chance the primer punch/seater assy is loose or bent? Doesn't seem to be 4 hours ago, Sarge said: Dillon did at one time I believe but I just checked their forums and only see that they advise caution when using soft federal pistol primers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbgruen Posted March 2, 2017 Author Share Posted March 2, 2017 4 hours ago, Sarge said: Dillon did at one time I believe but I just checked their forums and only see that they advise caution when using soft federal pistol primers On 3/1/2017 at 2:00 PM, tmz said: At what point is this happening ? The four bottom stroke of the machine ? Or the upstroke when your seating the primer ? Are you actually bending the arm or just the index tab that inserts into the primer wheel ? In order for you to crush the indexed arm something is hanging up the primer wheel if it was a primer you would find a crashed primer in there. You should also check the primer seating assembly to make sure it's fully coming out of the primer wheel on the upstroke when the primer indexes if it's not it will hold the wheel in place and cause damage to the index arm. My guess is at the top of the stroke since that is the only way I see a force on the index mechanism. The arm is bending and the spring is also getting bent and ruined. I can bend the arm back fairly close but the springs are never the same and it stops indexing without the new spring. Please elaborate on the Primer seating assembly.... i'm not following how on the upstroke the it would cause damage. doesn't the primer wheel disengage the shell plate near the bottom of the stroke and the wheel index at the top of the stroke??? I think I am missing something. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmz Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 Yes you are correct my mistake and getting the two mixed up. Might want to disassemble the primer indexer to make sure nothing is hanging up in there and stopping it from rotating from time to time also make sure that you don't over tighten the nut that the primer sensor sits on top of. The aluminum tube that has the brass tip on it may cost some interference if it's over tightened on the index wheel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lgh Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 On 3/2/2017 at 9:13 AM, Sarge said: Dillon did at one time I believe but I just checked their forums and only see that they advise caution when using soft federal pistol primers Good to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbgruen Posted March 3, 2017 Author Share Posted March 3, 2017 21 hours ago, tmz said: Yes you are correct my mistake and getting the two mixed up. Might want to disassemble the primer indexer to make sure nothing is hanging up in there and stopping it from rotating from time to time also make sure that you don't over tighten the nut that the primer sensor sits on top of. The aluminum tube that has the brass tip on it may cost some interference if it's over tightened on the index wheel. That I will have to try. I always tighten it pretty good. I hope it's that simple!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hwevers Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 This happened to me once, so I guess it's possible that someone else could run into it. The primer indexing arm (#13362) was skipping and not returning properly and generally being a real pain. Talked w/ Dillon and they sent me replacement pieces- indexing arm, the return spring, primer disc-all to no avail. I just happened to notice that the cavity in the housing body (#21279) has the shaft of a rivet in it. It is possible to insert the return spring so it is seated on this shaft. You have to have it seat ALL the way into the cavity, past the rivet shaft. This fixed the problem for me and I've had no problems since then (4 years ago) I hope this helps. Howard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbgruen Posted March 6, 2017 Author Share Posted March 6, 2017 7 hours ago, hwevers said: This happened to me once, so I guess it's possible that someone else could run into it. The primer indexing arm (#13362) was skipping and not returning properly and generally being a real pain. Talked w/ Dillon and they sent me replacement pieces- indexing arm, the return spring, primer disc-all to no avail. I just happened to notice that the cavity in the housing body (#21279) has the shaft of a rivet in it. It is possible to insert the return spring so it is seated on this shaft. You have to have it seat ALL the way into the cavity, past the rivet shaft. This fixed the problem for me and I've had no problems since then (4 years ago) I hope this helps. Howard I saw that a couple days ago when I completely disassembled the primer feed mechanism. There was wear at the back of the spring seat area but I should check the rivet and see if there are any witness marks on it. The whole indexer engagement / release /reset seems a little loosey goose to me. If the spring gets out of wack in the least the whole thing come crashing down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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