9mm or 38S better to convert to 38SC?

[Gooldylocks]

....that's like your opinion man.

 

9mm is cheaper... until you crack a slide or blow up a gun. LOL

I appreciate your use of that meme, but haven't we seen just as many cracked 38 slides as 9? High pressure cartridges, very low spring weights, and ultra light slides is a recipe for disaster either way.

 

[BeerBaron]

On 13/04/2017 at 9:09 AM, Bamboo said:

 

I'm in the process of refreshing a nice, but well used, open gun and just got the replacement barrel and thought I'd post the "before reaming"  info.   It is a Schuemann .355 short chamber and measures about 0.379" at the chamber mouth, before any reaming.  Attached is a photo.  That is a u-die'ed 9mm in as far as it will go, a u-die'ed .38 super won't even enter the pre-reamed chamber as the case wall on the .38 super is slightly thicker at the case mouth than a 9mm.   Also, just as a data point the short chamber is about 15mm deep.  

 

So, when this chamber is reamed I'm hoping material from the rear (mouth) of the chamber will indeed be removed.   

 

Thanks for sharing. Interesting data point. It confirmed what I thought about the 355 short chamber barrels for 9 and super but I was not certain. 

[RaylanGivens]

First I've heard of a .355 short chambered barrel...  Is it sort of a semi-finished barrel that you can then size to 9mm or 38 Super?  I suppose this resizing would have to be done in a lathe?

 

It looks like the upper locking lugs are finished?

[Bamboo]

Several brands sell short chambered barrels, it is a way to allow the gunsmith to finish ream the barrel to their preferences. 9mm and the 38 super variants are what we use it for primarily, but it can be finish reamed to other .355" barrel rounds if the gunsmith is creative (9x21, 9x25, .357 sig, etc).  For 9mm or 38 super don't have to have a lath, can be finish reamed by hand....but a lath is nice.

Yes, the barrel is finished in all other aspects but does require normal fitting...They are not drop in barrels (or at least none of the short chambered barrels I know of are).   

 

Also, it allows the manufacturer to reduce their stock....one barrel each in unramped, para, and nowlin ramped configuration needs to be produced and stocked.  

 

Glad it helped, a picture is worth a thousand words or so I have heard! 

Edited April 14, 2017 by Bamboo

[3gunDQ]

11 hours ago, Gooldylocks said:

I appreciate your use of that meme, but haven't we seen just as many cracked 38 slides as 9? High pressure cartridges, very low spring weights, and ultra light slides is a recipe for disaster either way.

 

 

As of recent? I'd say no. 

[Shadyscott999]

14 hours ago, Gooldylocks said:

In what world is it questionable? It is an undisputable fact that 9 major is cheaper. "But I can shoot my 38 brass eleventybillion times, then it is the same cost as buying once fired 9mm!!" Except that you don't have to EVER buy a piece of 9mm, so it can't ever be the same cost.

 

 

Lol.  That is the same old tired line.  Exactly how many people get all their 9mm brass for FREE?  Very few unless they are picking it up on the range.  Oops.  I thought you guys hated picking up brass.  Without exception every 9major shooter I know pays roughly $30/k for brass.  None of them pick up a single piece at a match.  So they pay .03 per shot in just brass.  I pick up 90% of my brass at matches and load them until they split, at least 15-20 times.  You do the math. 
Not to mention all the blown case heads and time spend sorting brass by head stamp, dealing with crimps, stepped brass, yada yada yada.  You can have all that 9mm brass.

 

[Gooldylocks]

 
Lol.  That is the same old tired line.  Exactly how many people get all their 9mm brass for FREE?  Very few unless they are picking it up on the range.  Oops.  I thought you guys hated picking up brass.  Without exception every 9major shooter I know pays roughly $30/k for brass.  None of them pick up a single piece at a match.  So they pay .03 per shot in just brass.  I pick up 90% of my brass at matches and load them until they split, at least 15-20 times.  You do the math. 
Not to mention all the blown case heads and time spend sorting brass by head stamp, dealing with crimps, stepped brass, yada yada yada.  You can have all that 9mm brass. [emoji4]

 

Whoever you are shooting with that isn't picking up any of their brass, is either lazy or has more money than sense. I can pick up more than I shot in a match in probably 10 minutes AFTER the match is done from any one of the bays, rather than scrounging around looking for brass rather than taping or ROing in the middle of the match. So I still don't pick up a single piece during the shooting, and still come out brass-positive nearly every match. Unless I don't want to (rainy, windy, need to be somewhere, lazy) in which case I'm only out.... zero dollars worth of brass.

Sorting brass? You should probably be doing that regardless of caliber to check for damage. But what do I know, I'm just a 9mm and 40 shooter who never once has had a case blow up on me.

[Ray_Z]

If I'm not mistaken the only difference between 38 super and 38 super comp is the rim of the case. The only thing that would have to be worked on is the angle of the extractor.

[Bamboo]

Ray_Z, yes that is the difference.  It is 97.68% (OK, I just made that up) about the extractor, and depending on the slide may need to fine tune the breechface to accept the .38 super rim if you are making a gun for 38 super  (not normally a problem with modern slides).

I have a gun that doesn't care if I mix super and supercomp and 9mm in the same mag....it shoots everything (it has a standard extractor, btw).  And then some that are rigged for super and will choke on supercomp.  So, each gun has it's own personality depending on parts, tolerances, and how it was set-up.  

 

So, I load 9 minor and 38 super for major.  i don't shoot 9 major.  For me even loading 9 minor is more of a hassle with all the case issues than loading 38 super.   i only separate out the aluminum and steel 9mm cases, and then if I happen to see any stepped cases....but don't look at every one.  38 super brass can be loaded pretty uneventfully right after being tumble cleaned with very little sorting.  Any cracked cases can be discovered easily by how they sound (tinkle-y sounding brass is cracked) as your are handling the brass after case cleaning.   The overall quality of 38 super and supercomp brass is consistent and high with no crimping, berdan priming,  steel or aluminum cases or added force because of the taper, etc.    To me the super is a wonderful reloader's cartridge - load it up, load it down, use heavy or light bullets, cast, coated, or jacketed....it all works with no drama.  

 

But yeah, i pick up my 38 super and will leave the 9mm on the ground and pick up after the match to replenish the 9mm case supply.     

Edited April 14, 2017 by Bamboo

[3gunDQ]

10 hours ago, Gooldylocks said:

Whoever you are shooting with that isn't picking up any of their brass, is either lazy or has more money than sense. I can pick up more than I shot in a match in probably 10 minutes AFTER the match is done from any one of the bays, rather than scrounging around looking for brass rather than taping or ROing in the middle of the match. So I still don't pick up a single piece during the shooting, and still come out brass-positive nearly every match. Unless I don't want to (rainy, windy, need to be somewhere, lazy) in which case I'm only out.... zero dollars worth of brass.

Sorting brass? You should probably be doing that regardless of caliber to check for damage. But what do I know, I'm just a 9mm and 40 shooter who never once has had a case blow up on me.

 

Uuuuuh supercomp is ALL starline brass bro, welcome to the world.

 

I shoot matches with Scott occasionally and he is fulla shit... he picks up maybe 10% at matches. I pick up more of his brass for him than he does, though he does RO and help out with the match. Super guys love super and nine guys think they are saving money... and the world keeps turning. All I know is #9problems don't happen when you shoot super. See my first post in this thread for #9problems. 

[cj36d]

Inshoot 38TJ and watch the quarters fly out and hit the ground every match...the upside is none of those 9mm major problems which seem to be very common amongst the open shooters in my area. 

 

But hey, shoot what you like.

[Gooldylocks]

 
Uuuuuh supercomp is ALL starline brass bro, welcome to the world.

What gave you the impression that I didn't think that was true? I was saying sort so you can make sure nothing is damaged. I prefer to catch bad cases before I dump them into the case feeder

[BeerBaron]

1 hour ago, cj36d said:

Inshoot 38TJ and watch the quarters fly out and hit the ground every match...the upside is none of those 9mm major problems which seem to be very common amongst the open shooters in my area. 

 

But hey, shoot what you like.

 

I have a question. Is there any functional difference between the rimless supers? Sc, rl, tj. Other than headstamp?

 

my understanding is that super comp, rimless, and Todd Jarrett are all just rimless super but I wonder why starline bothers to still make them all. 

[Shadyscott999]

8 hours ago, 3gunDQ said:

 

Uuuuuh supercomp is ALL starline brass bro, welcome to the world.

 

I shoot matches with Scott occasionally and he is fulla shit... he picks up maybe 10% at matches. I pick up more of his brass for him than he does, though he does RO and help out with the match. Super guys love super and nine guys think they are saving money... and the world keeps turning. All I know is #9problems don't happen when you shoot super. See my first post in this thread for #9problems. 

 

Yeah but when you and 5 other people pick up my brass, I get most of it back.  LOL  STOP GIVING AWAY MY SECRETS!  Now everybody will be doing it.  

[Shadyscott999]

6 hours ago, BeerBaron said:

 

I have a question. Is there any functional difference between the rimless supers? Sc, rl, tj. Other than headstamp?

 

my understanding is that super comp, rimless, and Todd Jarrett are all just rimless super but I wonder why starline bothers to still make them all. 

 

TJ is pretty much cut down 223 brass.  The rim is slightly smaller and the case volume is a little less due to the base of the brass being thicker and in theory stronger.  

[BeerBaron]

Thanks Scott. 

[Bamboo]

[ShortBus]

On 4/15/2017 at 5:38 AM, Shadyscott999 said:

 

TJ is pretty much cut down 223 brass.  The rim is slightly smaller and the case volume is a little less due to the base of the brass being thicker and in theory stronger.  

 

 

I cant find any info on this. Care to share more? 

[Steve RA]

Looks like the 9X23 Win may have the strongest cases.

[Alan550]

The 9X23 is definitely a stronger case!  Max operating pressure for that round is ~65,000 PSI, and the others are around 35,000 PSI.  It was originally based on a .223 case trimmed down to .900" (same length as the 38 Super) and stuffed with a 9mm bullet.  Factory rounds are a 124 grain bullet @ 1,450 FPS from a 5" bbl 1911, the ballistic equivalent to a .357 Magnum 125 grain bullet from a 4" revolver.  That's pretty hot stuff from that round and it's a tapered case similar to the 9mm.  In fact, you can use 9mm dies to reload that round too.  It has no rim so it stacks well in a mag compared to the 38 Super.  The 38 Super Comp eliminated the rim as a sort of copy in that respect, but it's still a straight wall case like the 38 Super.

 

Alan~^~

[cj36d]

On 4/15/2017 at 0:31 AM, BeerBaron said:

 

I have a question. Is there any functional difference between the rimless supers? Sc, rl, tj. Other than headstamp?

 

my understanding is that super comp, rimless, and Todd Jarrett are all just rimless super but I wonder why starline bothers to still make them all. 

TJ has a slightly different angle on the extractor groove which supposedly reduces friction on feeding up into battery...for the minor cost difference I like it, and never had any issues.  Nice to rib Todd at the local matches that I bought him a nice Christmas present every year with my most recent star line purchase...they definitely don't giv any discounts!

[BeerBaron]

On 29/04/2017 at 0:30 PM, cj36d said:

TJ has a slightly different angle on the extractor groove which supposedly reduces friction on feeding up into battery...for the minor cost difference I like it, and never had any issues.  Nice to rib Todd at the local matches that I bought him a nice Christmas present every year with my most recent star line purchase...they definitely don't giv any discounts!

 

Thanks for that tip. great info. I have a fair load of SC but if I could get new TJ for reasonable $$ I would give it a crack.

 

knowing to look for it I can see the different angle on the above pic.

 

lol, yes I'm sure starline 38TJ sales aren't what's keeping Todd in the style to which he's accustomed.