Thinking of trying open

[Shadyscott999]

10 hours ago, kneelingatlas said:

 

Scott, I assume these are all 38s right?

 

That would be correct.  

[Fatso]

At what level, do you shoot 40 open? not trying to be a douche. 

 

most of the time I see people not beeing M/GM sayings its a good thing. 

I think to invest in an open gun in 40, you kind of need a compelling reason, like a desire to keep mag/ammo commonality from limited.

I grabbed mine out of curiosity, copious amounts of brass & the capacity to load a buttload of rounds immediately. Thus, I can run Open while I collect enough brass to load for my 9 major gun.

Oh, and it really is a blast to shoot (pun severely intended). It really is field artillery.

I like shooting the 40 Open gun, but if I shot USPSA for a living, I'd definitely stick with 9 major!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Gooldylocks]

9 major or 38 are the only options if you want to be at the top of the game, imho

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[ano]

I literaly, have barrels of brass, including 40, but I still shoot 9/38  

 

 

[zzt]

I am not an M or GM, and never will be.  I just started shooting Open and am C.  I'll be B by the midpoint of the season.  I don't expect to go higher than that, but A would be nice.  How well one shoots Classifiers has no bearing on the merits of using 40 for Open.  I'm not recommending it over 9mm or 38SC.  I'm simply saying there is no disadvantage other than the 3 round capacity deficit.  I've been told the same thing by the M Open I shoot with.

 

The guy who sold me the Open upper for my TS says that starting with 29 +1 is HUGE.  He also likes light bullets with gobs of slow powder.  I don't see it.

 

Like Fatso, I did have compelling reasons to go 40 Open.  I didn't want to load 9mm.  I have LOTS of 40 components.  A full custom 40 Open 2011 became available at an attractive price, so I bought it.  I didn't have time to build my own, and didn't want to wait for someone else to build one.  I shot Limited before moving to Open, and knew from that experience that mag capacity was not that vital.  20 +1 was always enough.  I never ran a mag dry and heard the dreaded click, so starting with 26 +1 seemed like a bonus, not a disadvantage.

 

I will tell you what's holding me back, and it isn't 40.  It's my 2011 Open pistol.  I love the pistol, but transitioning from slide mounted sights and dots was/is a bear.  Every other pistol I own has slide mounted reflex sights, except the Limited pistol.  And that will wear one as soon as it comes back from the machinist.  Going to a frame mounted Slideride caused problems, because it is so high over the bore.  Not only do you have to hold over and under much more than slide mounted sights, you play find the dot.  Since I still shot the other pistols for other games, going back and forth is a problem.  I find I have to practice drawing the 2011 the day before the match for at least 30 minutes to get back on track.  Of course, then I'm off when I shoot another pistol after.

 

As I mentioned earlier, I'm in the process of building a 9mm 1911 and a hicap (Caspian).  Both will have slide mounted optics.  I'll see if there is any difference.

Edited February 22, 2017 by zzt

[teros135]

34 minutes ago, zzt said:

I am not an M or GM, and never will be.  I just started shooting Open and am C.  I'll be B by the midpoint of the season.  I don't expect to go higher than that.  How well one shoots Classifiers has no bearing on the merits of using 40 for Open.  I'm not recommending it over 9mm or 38SC.  I'm simply saying there is no disadvantage other than the 3 round capacity deficit.  I've been told the same thing by the M Open I shoot with.

 

The guy who sold me the Open upper for my TS says that starting with 29 +1 is HUGE.  He also likes light bullets with gobs of slow powder.  I don't see it.

Just wondering ... does your M Open friend shoot 40 (in his main competition gun)?

[zzt]

teros, no he shoots a custom 2011 9mm Major gun.

[ano]

Again not to be a douche, but I am actually a Master in Open.

 

This also means Ive done a lot of testing, not always successfull  

Our club is pretty cool, we have 3 GM's and 2 M's and a lot of A guys soon to be M, we like to think are are an open friendly club, open division is usually twice as large as limited on our matches. 

[theWacoKid]

20 hours ago, 3djedi said:

Interesting....... I wonder why .40 is not used much in open. Can't but just be the round count, right? Seems like it would produce plenty of gas to work the comp. Plus safer to load ammo....

 

 

 

The round count alone is enough.  If you want to be competitive you can't just GIVE away anything.  9/38 can be loaded to produce all the gas you want so no advantage to 40 there.  The 9/38's also are easier to get loaded with bullets on the lighter end of the allowed spectrum which inherently work better.  Because of .40 projectiles, it's going to be more expensive to load, cutting into how much practice ammo you have.  And in the end, loading 9/38 to major is not dangerous with the appropriate powders and way less risky than most of the loads people tend to run in a .40 major limited gun.  

[theWacoKid]

20 hours ago, cb60130 said:

That was exactly my thought... And why I landed there. I didn't want to have to get into loading another caliber with 38 super. And looking at what it takes to run 9 major ... Frankly kinda scares me.

 

I don't now understand the fear of 9 major.  I agree I was cautious when I started, but after spending time with it I realized how little risk there actually is when using slow powders and quickly inspected cases.  I don't avoid the bad cases in the interest of safety per se, just in the interest of not stopping my gun.  Because when the bad cases go it's still very low risk for your health, but highly likely to end your stage.  It's the load that can rupture your chamber/barrel that you have to worry about and slow powder in 9 cases, even over charged, simply can't do that without some kind of help.

 

I'm still way more scared of fast powders people use in production and limited major.  I've yet to personally see a 9 major gun be ruined by a 9 major load (but I have been turned off to a few powders believing it may be possible).  However, I've seen more than a couple production and limited guns go boom with "safe" loads.  

Edited February 22, 2017 by theWacoKid

[zzt]

Other than Clays loaded to max or near max, fast powders are perfectly safe for Limited.  I used 3.7gr e3 under a 180 for 172PF, and that was WAAAY under max pressure.  17,000+ rounds and no case ruptures, splits or flattened primers.  Same thing with 40 Open.  I'm just under max with the Autocomp load, a little more under with the Silhouette load, and way under with HS-6.  All are 172-173PF.

 

I'm the other way around- leery of 9mm Major.  That being said, all the Open shooters I know, including the two Ms, plus the two custom gunsmiths shoot 124gr bullets loaded with either Autocomp, Silhouette or HS-6.  They go bang every time, and never boom, so they must be safe.  If I ever decide to reload 9mm, I'll give it a try, just to see.

[Gooldylocks]

I am not an M or GM, and never will be.  I just started shooting Open and am C.  I'll be B by the midpoint of the season.  I don't expect to go higher than that, but A would be nice.  How well one shoots Classifiers has no bearing on the merits of using 40 for Open.  I'm not recommending it over 9mm or 38SC.  I'm simply saying there is no disadvantage other than the 3 round capacity deficit.  I've been told the same thing by the M Open I shoot with.

 

The guy who sold me the Open upper for my TS says that starting with 29 +1 is HUGE.  He also likes light bullets with gobs of slow powder.  I don't see it.

I shot Limited before moving to Open, and knew from that experience that mag capacity was not that vital.  20 +1 was always enough.  I never ran a mag dry and heard the dreaded click, so starting with 26 +1 seemed like a bonus, not a disadvantage.

26+1 is plenty, until you get a 28-30 round, 9 second stage and have to do a reload while none of the other open shooters do. That capacity difference just cost you 17 match points.

[theWacoKid]

26 minutes ago, zzt said:

Other than Clays loaded to max or near max, fast powders are perfectly safe for Limited.  I used 3.7gr e3 under a 180 for 172PF, and that was WAAAY under max pressure.  17,000+ rounds and no case ruptures, splits or flattened primers.  Same thing with 40 Open.  I'm just under max with the Autocomp load, a little more under with the Silhouette load, and way under with HS-6.  All are 172-173PF.

 

I'm the other way around- leery of 9mm Major.  That being said, all the Open shooters I know, including the two Ms, plus the two custom gunsmiths shoot 124gr bullets loaded with either Autocomp, Silhouette or HS-6.  They go bang every time, and never boom, so they must be safe.  If I ever decide to reload 9mm, I'll give it a try, just to see.

 

The problem with Clays and similar fast powders isn't the load you're running.  It's that one over or double charge.  In other words, at the reloading bench Clays and others are way less forgiving to a charging mistake than full cases of slow powder.  It's the margin of error, not the load as designed.

 

These powders alone are capable of blowing up a gun with a single overlooked round.  The slower powders in 9 major simply are not.  

Edited February 22, 2017 by theWacoKid

[teros135]

9 minutes ago, theWacoKid said:

 

The problem with Clays and similar fast powders isn't the load you're running.  It's that one over or double charge.  In other words, at the reloading bench Clays and others are way less forgiving to a charging mistake than full cases of slow powder.  It's the margin of error, not the load as designed.

 

These powders alone are capable of blowing up a gun with a single overlooked round.  The slower powders in 9 major simply are not.  

 

Possible, yes, but nothing to get worked up about.  We should all (regardless of caliber, load, or PF) be using safe loading practices, including looking into each charged case and/or a powder checker.  I'm just not hearing of an epidemic of kabooms from shooters loading the faster powders.  

[theWacoKid]

That's my point.  We should ALWAYS be mindful.  But yes I've seen guns blown up due to these errors.  Epidemic?  No.  More than open major?  Yes.

 

My point is everyone seems to fear 9 major, yet we ruin more guns with production and 40 major loads.  Why?

Edited February 22, 2017 by theWacoKid

[zzt]

Gooldy, I'll grant you there may be such stages somewhere.  There are none near me.  All the stages I shoot at three clubs are designed to make darn sure the Open shooters have to traverse the same ground as Production.  There is no spray from two spots and hardly move.  Usually you have to move quite a distance to cover the entire stage.   I closely watch the two Ms.  Even though they start with 29-30 in the mag, they drop and reload at the same point I do, because it makes sense to do so.  If they ever start designing stages that reward more mag capacity, I'll start reloading 9mm and shoot Major.

[cb60130]

Just to be clear... Especially as a noob around here. I replied to the op simply with my experience with a very entry level open gun he expressed some interest in. I was reluctant to admit that it happens to be in .40 cal because I have seen the general disdain for open guns of that caliber in the past. It wasn't my intention to set off a day and a half of debate on the subject.

[3djedi]

I enjoy the conversation as I've always wondered why people tended to stay away from 40 in open...... the only reason I'm hearing is strictly capacity and maybe cost of projectiles. Are there other reasons like perhaps 40 recoil impulse sucks compares to 9/38? Capacity is probably an issue on 1% of stages around here but probably a larger issue at the bigger matches.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

[Fatso]

I enjoy the conversation as I've always wondered why people tended to stay away from 40 in open...... the only reason I'm hearing is strictly capacity and maybe cost of projectiles. Are there other reasons like perhaps 40 recoil impulse sucks compares to 9/38? Capacity is probably an issue on 1% of stages around here but probably a larger issue at the bigger matches.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

Such is the world of competitive USPSA. There are obviously many that don't understand why you'd yield any advantage available to you in open, and I totally see their point. I'd say if you're in it for the fun, however, buy whatever blows your skirt up.

Fatso


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[teros135]

Interestingly, the 2016 Open Nationals equipment survey says that 60% shot .38, 39% shot 9mm, and 1% shot .40. 

 

http://www.multibriefs.com/briefs/uspsa/open_survey.pdf

[3djedi]

Such is the world of competitive USPSA. There are obviously many that don't understand why you'd yield any advantage available to you in open, and I totally see their point. I'd say if you're in it for the fun, however, buy whatever blows your skirt up.

Fatso


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Lol I get it.

But a lot of guys aren't out there to win area matches or nationals. Just slightly competitive and good times. I understand you need every competitive edge to win Area and national matches.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

[Gooldylocks]

1 hour ago, zzt said:

Gooldy, I'll grant you there may be such stages somewhere.  There are none near me.  All the stages I shoot at three clubs are designed to make darn sure the Open shooters have to traverse the same ground as Production.  There is no spray from two spots and hardly move.  Usually you have to move quite a distance to cover the entire stage.   I closely watch the two Ms.  Even though they start with 29-30 in the mag, they drop and reload at the same point I do, because it makes sense to do so.  If they ever start designing stages that reward more mag capacity, I'll start reloading 9mm and shoot Major.

I'm not talking about standing in one or two spots and spraying bullets, rather the super hoser, close in, 10+ HF stages that require tons of short movement and hitting particular angles or spots to make the targets available. And the old standby of "it doesn't cost you any time if you reload while you are moving" is demonstrably false, especially in open in my experience. You need to be shooting as soon as the muzzle clears that wall or the target appears in the port. Reloads on those types of stages when the competition isn't reloading will cost you points, every time.

[3djedi]

Well I bit the bullet and ordered a CK from shootersconnection. I figure if I really love Open I'll order a custom later on and sell the CK or keep it as a back up.

I got the CK Hardcore with the RTS2.

Now, what kind of magazine setup should I buy to get started? 170mm, and two 140mm? Or three 155mm? Or what do you suggest?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

[TennJeep1618]

3 minutes ago, 3djedi said:

Well I bit the bullet and ordered a CK from shootersconnection. I figure if I really love Open I'll order a custom later on and sell the CK or keep it as a back up.

I got the CK Hardcore with the RTS2.

Now, what kind of magazine setup should I buy to get started? 170mm, and two 140mm? Or three 155mm? Or what do you suggest?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk
 

 

You'll want at least one 170 and two 140's. I've run into a few instances lately where a 155 would have been handy, so I may be picking up one of them sometime soon.  Or I could just practice reloading to a 170...

[ano]

I can reload 170 with 28 easy, so bit unsure on the 155s. if they run the 10-11 coil springs feeding could be an issue at last round, my gun depends on good mag springs  


I have 4x 170 and 4x 140 in mag bag, and use 1x170 and 2x140 in rig