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Extreme accuracy at speed


ArrDave

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So I've taken about 6 months off the Hopkins drill, but this week I've reintroduced it to my dry fire.  As I've gotten better at calling shots and identifying what I need to see to make a certain shot, I've noticed I cannot hit the par times at all.  I'm doing the 5 second variant shot in the 162534 sequence (and the reverse) and at best I can get 5 honest shots in where I would have hit the little 1x1 dot at approx 5 yards.  

 

Can you HONESTLY dryfire the Hopkins above in the 5 second par time recommended?  

 

How do you push speed on honest accuracy for tight shots like that?   I've been dryfiring partials at a simulated 25 yards all week and that's been great for my vision, but I find I'm having difficulty pushing speed with honest hits.  

 

Typical stand and deliver  at 10 yard drills seem less applicable for something like this... help me think of drills to be doing to speed up my accurate transitions/sights settling.  

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Work speed and accuracy separately in dry fire. While I have quoted Steve Anderson in the past the principle is universal. Example, I found a little article about learning to speed read by Tim Ferris and the process has one focus on speed and then comprehension. I tried it and increased my comprehensible reading speed by 300%. Steve Anderson talks about speed, accuracy, and match mode.
Now is that drill possible? I don't know, but that's how to approach the underlying principle.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

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I believe in the book or on his podcast, Ben says not to chase par times too hard for this drill.  He focuses on really paying attention to his sight picture.  I use a timer on this, but do not keep reducing it like I would in speed mode for other drills.  Not sure if that is the correct approach, just how I interpreted it.

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Five seconds is a goal, and not necessarily what you should be doing right now.  Actually, you're probably doing more harm than good by putting that expectation on yourself.  I'm no grandmaster but it's been my experience that doing drills with a combination of no par time, and with par times yields better results for me.  Start out with something that is doable or barely doable, practice that a lot and then work your way down on the time.  Of course, you're always pushing the envelope because if you only do what is comfortable, you'll never improve.  Believe me, I've been there many times when I never thought I would improve, but I kept at it.  One day I hit it, the next day almost or not at all.  It's inconsistent but I keep working at it and then I hit it every time and it is the norm.

And, practicing speed without so much focus on accuracy will help you see what is possible.  In other words, do some reps where your primary focus is snapping your eyes and moving the gun as fast as possible without having to worry about misses.  Don't always practice like that, but make it part of your dry fire practice routine.  I think you'll see what a difference it makes.

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12 minutes ago, grapemeister said:

Five seconds is a goal, and not necessarily what you should be doing right now.  Actually, you're probably doing more harm than good by putting that expectation on yourself.  I'm no grandmaster but it's been my experience that doing drills with a combination of no par time, and with par times yields better results for me.  Start out with something that is doable or barely doable, practice that a lot and then work your way down on the time.  Of course, you're always pushing the envelope because if you only do what is comfortable, you'll never improve.  Believe me, I've been there many times when I never thought I would improve, but I kept at it.  One day I hit it, the next day almost or not at all.  It's inconsistent but I keep working at it and then I hit it every time and it is the norm.

And, practicing speed without so much focus on accuracy will help you see what is possible.  In other words, do some reps where your primary focus is snapping your eyes and moving the gun as fast as possible without having to worry about misses.  Don't always practice like that, but make it part of your dry fire practice routine.  I think you'll see what a difference it makes.

That's what I used to do, but my shot calling was trash back then.  My trigger control wasn't what it needed to be for a difficult shot and the sight picture wouldn't quite be there. 

 

I mean, I get speed mode, I get accuracy mode, I get match mode.  if anything, this drill is more like a match mode kind of thing but the skill I'm speaking to is maintaing precision on a difficult target more rapidly.  I'm not sure that speed mode applies and that's my real question is how do you train this to go faster?  I can drill transitions faster, as my draw continues to tidy up I can pick up some more time to aim, maybe I refine my trigger pull and immediacy of the pull when registering a good sight picture.... but there's not like a thing to isolate and drill since the drill does require all of the things.

 

 

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One thing I notice on this drill for me is it exponentially multiplies the error if your eyes aren't aggressively leading the gun.  So if this drill isn't going well I will do a couple of reps of just looking at the dots in order without the gun.  Really look AT the dot, not just look at an area and see the dot as a side effect.  I may try this more explicitly and do the look at the dots as the drill.  See what happens.

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1 hour ago, ArrDave said:

That's what I used to do, but my shot calling was trash back then.  My trigger control wasn't what it needed to be for a difficult shot and the sight picture wouldn't quite be there. 

 

I mean, I get speed mode, I get accuracy mode, I get match mode.  if anything, this drill is more like a match mode kind of thing but the skill I'm speaking to is maintaing precision on a difficult target more rapidly.  I'm not sure that speed mode applies and that's my real question is how do you train this to go faster?  I can drill transitions faster, as my draw continues to tidy up I can pick up some more time to aim, maybe I refine my trigger pull and immediacy of the pull when registering a good sight picture.... but there's not like a thing to isolate and drill since the drill does require all of the things.

 

 

I understand what your saying.  But, this is a good drill for what your wanting.  Actually, that is the purpose of the drill.  What I was trying to say before is that if you're really having a problem with one element, then allow yourself the time to practice just that one element without adding in the pressure of the other elements.   In this case, when working on accuracy at speed, then don't worry about speed so much.  Sure, snap the eyes and move the gun fast, prep the trigger as needed, see what you need to see, but don't worry about pulling the trigger fast.  And vise versa when in speed mode.  You'll get the benefits practicing all three ways.  Speed, accuracy and the normal way or match mode, in other words.

 

Keep in mind that your grip, stance, and tension in your shoulders and arms does not change.  All that stays the same, no matter what mode you are shooting in.  For now, I wouldn't think about pulling the trigger any faster, even when going at normal speed. 

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Edit to add:  Can you shoot a plate on a plate rack and hit it consistently at 25 yards?  I'm sure the answer is yes.   That's all your doing in this drill.  The only thing different is transitioning from plate to plate at speed.   Keep practicing shooting the single plate, or dot in this case.  One plate or dot at a time, that's all you can do.

 

Edit to add, again:  I hope you understand that I completely understand what you are talking about, but I'm probably not doing the best job of articulating my thoughts.  I should be able to explain myself better and offer better suggestions.  We are all dealing with same problem or continuing to explore and find better ways to allow us to shoot fast and accurately.  Perhaps someone else will chime in with better suggestions.

Edited by grapemeister
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I gotcha.  Yes, I can clean a plate rack at 25 yards, I just wish I got to practice on them more.   I imagine pushing speed on a platerack in live fire would actually be a good test bed.  I'm always going to be constrained somewhat on my shot calling in dry fire since you can kid yourself that the pic & press was "good enough" .

 

I think all my shooting for the foreseeable future is going to be pushing speed at 25 yards.   

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2 hours ago, ArrDave said:

I gotcha.  Yes, I can clean a plate rack at 25 yards, I just wish I got to practice on them more.   I imagine pushing speed on a platerack in live fire would actually be a good test bed.  I'm always going to be constrained somewhat on my shot calling in dry fire since you can kid yourself that the pic & press was "good enough" .

 

I think all my shooting for the foreseeable future is going to be pushing speed at 25 yards.   

I think you will do well.  I'm sure you're wise enough to realize there is no magic pill, and it takes a lot of thoughtful dedicated practice    Being only a mediocre B class that hasn't fired a shot in three or four months and not shot a match since early last year, I really don't feel comfortable posting on topics like this but I've been around a while and learned a lot.  I've been exactly where you are at, and have had the same questions.  I know how frustrating it can get.  I hope somehow that sharing my experiences will help others. 

 

 

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